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Alarm over call to prayer
7:56pm Thursday 20th December 2007
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PLANS to broadcast a call to prayer from Oxford's Central Mosque, in Manzil Way, would turn East Oxford into a 'Muslim ghetto', residents have claimed.
Dozens of people packed out a meeting of Oxford City Council's east area parliament on Wednesday to express their concerns over plans for a two-minute long call to prayer to be issued from loudspeakers in the mosque's minaret three times a day.
Dr Mark Huckster, who lives in Stanton Road and works at East Oxford hospice Helen House, said: "The proposal to issue a prayer call is very un-neighbourly, especially in a crowded urban space such as Oxford.
"I have lived in the Middle East and a prayer call has a very different feel to church bells and I personally found the noise extremely unpleasant, rather disturbing and very alien to the western mindset."
He added: "If an evangelical Christian preacher proposed issuing sermons three times a day at full volume there would be an outcry.
"There could be a sense of ghettoisation of East Oxford. Cowley Road would have a Muslim flavour and could become a Muslim ghetto which is contrary to what we want in a multicultural society."
Dr Huckster was among six residents speaking in opposition to the plans, revealed in the Oxford Mail in November - and one of three who was applauded for his comments.
Allan Chapman, who lives in East Oxford, said: "We are concerned with civil liberties and civil peace and the right to be able to live in our own space.
"I do not want preaching at. It is not the tradition of this country or the tradition I subscribe to.
He said: "I find this totally, utterly unacceptable and I plan to do whatever I can to stop it."
Samantha Mandrup, of Margaret Road, said: "I see this as a matter of civil liberty, noise pollution, and infringement of privacy."
David Hutcheson, of East Avenue, said: "I'm very happy for people to practice their own religion but very unhappy about the thought of having a loudspeaker broadcasting any messages into my private space."
After the meeting, Sardar Rana, a spokesman for the Central Mosque, said he would be happy to clarify any issues and invited anyone to come to the mosque so he could satisfy their concerns.
He said: "The call is going on in so many places in the UK, and we must get the same right as everybody else.
"When they ring the bells in church, we respect it but that is also a call to prayer.
"We don't want to do anything that will disturb the people or upset the people."
Your Say YourOxford
A HUMAN, OXFORD,UK says...
10:17pm Thu 20 Dec 07
If it affects you then people are affected by the disgusting lyrics in some music across shops. Also the bells that go off...if u except them ...then why not except this.
and it and a SERMON!!
A call to prayer .lol
A HUMAN, OXFORD,UK says...
10:19pm Thu 20 Dec 07
steve, oxford says...
10:47pm Thu 20 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
11:03pm Thu 20 Dec 07
I find it disturbing.
Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster says...
11:17pm Thu 20 Dec 07
I have worked in several Islamic states (thankfully, on short term postings) and loathed every minute of it. Perhaps we should refuse permission for the broadcast of this dreadful dirge until the Saudis and their ilk allow the building of Christian churches within their borders?
As for multiculturism; it exists only in PC fantasy land. Ethnic and non-Christian minorities combined make up less than 10% of the UK population, although given their deliberate over-representation by the BBC and other left wing media one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise.
With the PC brigade already embarked on Operation Deny Christmas, I think that this would be a concession too far.
Equal rights? Yes. Special rights (no Christian church would be allowed to ring its bells three times a day, seven days a week)? emphatically no.
Mr Ison, England says...
11:23pm Thu 20 Dec 07
Keith Lonsdale, Doncaster says...
11:33pm Thu 20 Dec 07
73% of British people consider themselves to be Christian, 15% of no religion leaving 12% to make up all of the others, including those that refused to answer the census question.
Source: Office for National Statistics.
Mr Ison, England says...
12:03am Fri 21 Dec 07
We see their red brick apartments and prefab huts springing up and are reminded of the architecture of Nazi work camps.
Shouldnt Mr Chapman and co also remark upon this feat of political engineering like any other Englishman?
Maybe they should be more truthful and say they dont want outsiders moving into their Ghetto.
Mr Ison, England says...
12:35am Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
1:09am Fri 21 Dec 07
It's that simple.
Mr. Sanchez, Oxford says...
8:49am Fri 21 Dec 07
Lilliput, oxon says...
9:23am Fri 21 Dec 07
Richard, Oxford says...
10:01am Fri 21 Dec 07
Inicdentally, who is Mr Ison? He turns up on every comments page & drones out his daft agenda whilst completely ignoring the original subject. Can't his paranoid drivel be filtered out somehow? It's very boring!
Rabbi tarquin, oxford says...
10:22am Fri 21 Dec 07
suspicious, oxford says...
10:24am Fri 21 Dec 07
Then again, maybe he's just a wind-up merchant. There's a lot of those sad folk on the internet.
Teddy, Khartoum, Sudan says...
12:37pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
1:26pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Like it or lump it is their motto,let us know what that is in Latin.
Sid Hunt, says...
1:45pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Richard wrote:Richard,
To be consistent & fair (a) this should not be allowed (b) church bells should be dismantled. Most people would be happy with both these things happening. Inicdentally, who is Mr Ison? He turns up on every comments page & drones out his daft agenda whilst completely ignoring the original subject. Can't his paranoid drivel be filtered out somehow? It's very boring!
The wailing message eminating from high volume speakers is not comparable to church bells and, contrary to your assertions, most people would not be happy to dismantle church bells.
There are houses in my street being used as places of worship despite not having the requisite permission, how long before these also demand 'their right' to broadcast their rally to prayers?
Mr Ison, England says...
1:49pm Fri 21 Dec 07
They try to suggest that a call to prayer is dissonant,as to their choice of words...they chose poorly.
peries, cowley says...
2:53pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
3:28pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Why not spend a pretty penny introducing splendid Islamic Architecture so we can all see the majesty of Allah.
These repurposed buildings that are often used were unnapealing beforehand,maybe less so now.
Get that Bin Laden construction in there.
rev byrd, oxford says...
3:33pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
3:42pm Fri 21 Dec 07
That could be a stumbling block.
Mr Ison, England says...
4:01pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Because at the weekend we traditionally lay-in after a hard week of work,we do not want to hear Quasimodo ringing his bells at god knows what hour.
Especially as we have more churches with bell capacity than we have parishoners.
The call to prayer happens when we are at work,we dont hear it at all.
The few Mosques are packed with followers and the wailing doesnt toll on for endless hours.
Mr Ison, England says...
4:46pm Fri 21 Dec 07
nd political prisoner preacher Abu Hamza were to be released for a whistlestop tour of British Churches.
He would give his sermon to the electrified parishoners,literall
y their hair would stand on end as he detailed the evils of their infidelious satanic and homosexual ways.
The fear of god would be struck into the suddenly swollen congregation and the other cheek would be turned.
The Parson could teach him a little bell ringing and hands would be shook.
It would be cool but it's sadly not on the home office agenda.
Swift Nick, says...
5:53pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
6:03pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Cunning these Jocks.
Dan, Oxford says...
7:33pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Every Muslim- be they 'fundamentalist' or 'moderate' believes that Allah is the One True God and that the World (of infidels) should be converted to Islam under Sharia law.
Naturally, a call to prayer in Oxford is a great victory for spreading this message.
What I find harder to understand, are the misguided 'Lefties' (usually white, middle- class with little real experience of hardship or the realities of what they drone on about) of East Oxford who welcome this as some sort of wonderful addition to 'culture/ colour/ cosmopolitanism/ diversity' and all those other tediously vague terms.
Islam is NOT a tolerant or 'diverse' set of beliefs and subjugates all individuality to 'God'. How long until the butchers is forced to stop selling pork lest it offends? Or the off licenses? Or students wearing short skirts and tops in the Summer? This is quite apart from the hostility towards homosexuals and 'idolators' such as Buddhists and Hindus.
How would people feel if Scientologists or Evangelical Christians demanded a platform to call their followers to hear about intergalactic warlords and multiviatmins for post- natal depression in the case of the former, or how homosexuals and doctors carrying out abortions will burn in hell for eternity in the case of the latter?
Islamic countries do NOT have a tradition of tolerance towards anyone else (or indeed other factions within Islam) and it is a grave mistake to think of it in any other way.
Swift Nick, says...
7:34pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
7:39pm Fri 21 Dec 07
The Jews have small black boxes.
The politicians have many black boxes.
The Muslims have the biggest black box.
In America bigger is better,the Muslims win.
James, says...
7:43pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Swift Nick wrote:At times the phylactery holds a complete book, this could cause our musician to loose control of his pipes by pressure on the necks hyoid bone.
Would such an amulet protect the lone piper from the Wroth of the burghers of this fair city?
Swift Nick, says...
7:46pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison wrote:Jumbo Jets had medium sized black boxes.
He could wear two on his Sporran. The Jews have small black boxes. The politicians have many black boxes. The Muslims have the biggest black box. In America bigger is better,the Muslims win.
Mr Ison, England says...
7:48pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Probably,i am not overly concerned.
It calls the faithfull.
They took A level sociology.
What does the Koran say,what's your interpretation.
We wont know until it happens.
I wouldn't be so sure.
That about wraps it up.
r, east oxford says...
8:17pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
8:33pm Fri 21 Dec 07
One of those is not true.
Mr Ison, England says...
8:54pm Fri 21 Dec 07
I tried to elaborate on this issue but the posts suffered the censors hand.
The feel good factor is used when pumping ideaology,the fearful factor is it's twin used to supress truth.
The pushing of ideology such as financial health in the Uk is used to create a bubble,a boom and bust scenario.
The fear factor is that of those who know better but will be out of a job if they reveal to the consumer what they know.
Relaxation of media ownership
is a means to supress information and consolidate to a limited few any control it may have over the population.
As such the monopoly of media ownership can and does represent a fifth column.
Calidore, Jericho says...
9:04pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
9:07pm Fri 21 Dec 07
I dont admire the cut of their cloth,a yellow streak etc.
second class citizen, Oxford says...
10:05pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Juliana, london says...
10:33pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
10:44pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Jan Sibson, East Oxford says...
11:18pm Fri 21 Dec 07
If it is passed I suggest an economic counter blow of boycotting any Muslim owned business in the area
Mr Ison, England says...
11:28pm Fri 21 Dec 07
The people of the book this week launched an internet campaign to garner support to prevent multiculturalism from spreading into their ghetto,the object of their obsession a Mosque,their means of preventing the Mosque is confirmed to be the prevention of noise pollution.
Critics of their scheme suggest racism is the cause of the problem.
A councillor who could not be named suggests they use bells instead of the traditional Imams call to prayer.
I mean c'mon where is the honesty,why all the secrecy and beating about the bush?
Dan, Oxford says...
11:45pm Fri 21 Dec 07
Jan Sibson wrote:...allowing (Muslim) landlords to snap them up to rent out to the ever increasing number of students and economic migrants residing in East Oxford.
If the Mosque is allowed this call to prayer the value of any houses within earshot will plummet - costing any home owners in the area (including Muslim ones) Tens of Thousands of Pounds. If it is passed I suggest an economic counter blow of boycotting any Muslim owned business in the area
Think they'd thought of that one...
Mr Ison, England says...
11:50pm Fri 21 Dec 07
I find Muslims to share a common attribute with us native Brits,the shunning of the dishonest.
Mr Ison, England says...
12:13am Sat 22 Dec 07
Dont you just love all this hackneyed nonsense?
I cant imagine why anyone would want to come here.
Mr Ison, England says...
12:18am Sat 22 Dec 07
Starting with:
In modern Multicultural Britain...
My contribution:
You get what's coming to you.
Mr Ison, England says...
12:31am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
12:33am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
12:37am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
12:38am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
12:40am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
12:43am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
12:45am Sat 22 Dec 07
alan page, says...
12:48am Sat 22 Dec 07
Dan wrote:They seemed pretty tolerant when they were running Spain a few centuries back.
Interesting to see how my last post was censored. Every Muslim- be they 'fundamentalist' or 'moderate' believes that Allah is the One True God and that the World (of infidels) should be converted to Islam under Sharia law. Naturally, a call to prayer in Oxford is a great victory for spreading this message. What I find harder to understand, are the misguided 'Lefties' (usually white, middle- class with little real experience of hardship or the realities of what they drone on about) of East Oxford who welcome this as some sort of wonderful addition to 'culture/ colour/ cosmopolitanism/ diversity' and all those other tediously vague terms. Islam is NOT a tolerant or 'diverse' set of beliefs and subjugates all individuality to 'God'. How long until the butchers is forced to stop selling pork lest it offends? Or the off licenses? Or students wearing short skirts and tops in the Summer? This is quite apart from the hostility towards homosexuals and 'idolators' such as Buddhists and Hindus. How would people feel if Scientologists or Evangelical Christians demanded a platform to call their followers to hear about intergalactic warlords and multiviatmins for post- natal depression in the case of the former, or how homosexuals and doctors carrying out abortions will burn in hell for eternity in the case of the latter? Islamic countries do NOT have a tradition of tolerance towards anyone else (or indeed other factions within Islam) and it is a grave mistake to think of it in any other way.
Very highly developed
civilisation. You clearly know bugger all about sufism for a start. It is only the past 20 years or so the religion has been dragged into the dark ages by people with powerful vested interests.
Tarquin, old bean, try and learn the difference between being a lunatic and choosing not to be a bland, vacuous little yes man.
Better still read a few books, you know, sort of like imformative stuff on history et al.
I know that seems rather anathema to you who would, no doubt, prefer to be waving a glowstick around, whilst smacked to the tits on drugs, but they are a useful resource.
If the BNP have discovered how Marxism and Fascism have derived from Hegel (something I have been going on about) then it is not my sanity that is in question but your cultural literacy.
Do something with your brain old bean.
tarquin, oxford says...
12:52am Sat 22 Dec 07
alan page, says...
12:58am Sat 22 Dec 07
Jan Sibson wrote:This is the crux isn't it.
If the Mosque is allowed this call to prayer the value of any houses within earshot will plummet - costing any home owners in the area (including Muslim ones) Tens of Thousands of Pounds. If it is passed I suggest an economic counter blow of boycotting any Muslim owned business in the area
MONEY!!! And potential loss of.
Knew it had to come into the equation somewhere.
Such shallow materialism, I would laugh, but it would intefere with the wonderful Ghazals I'm currently listening to.
Mr Ison, England says...
1:02am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
1:11am Sat 22 Dec 07
Mr Ison, England says...
1:23am Sat 22 Dec 07
Now why am i reminded of Dali's The temptation of St Anthony?
Mr Ison, England says...
1:30am Sat 22 Dec 07
These should fit the bill nicely,i would even offer to pay for them.
http://www.talariaen
terprises.com/images
2/sd05a.jpg
Mr Ison, England says...
2:38am Sat 22 Dec 07
Even,they dont like it up em,sir!
Mr Ison, England says...
2:42am Sat 22 Dec 07
Nadia, UK says...
4:10am Sat 22 Dec 07
Bob, oxford says...
7:42am Sat 22 Dec 07
if the request is passed, my suggestion would be that whatever time the call to prayer goes out, every car and truck in the area blasts their horns to drown out the whaling, Taxi's excluded,
juliana, says...
7:52am Sat 22 Dec 07
Hooray!
juliana, says...
7:53am Sat 22 Dec 07
G Williams, Leicester says...
11:40am Sat 22 Dec 07
A HUMAN, OXFORD,UK says...
10:16pm Thu 20 Dec 07
If it affects you then people are affected by the disgusting lyrics in some music across shops. Also the bells that go off...if u except them ...then why not except this.
and it and a SERMON!!
A call to prayer .lol