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Call to prayer not necessary
WE ARE puzzled to read that an application has been made by the Central Mosque in Manzil Way, off Cowley Road, Oxford, to have planning laws changed to enable Muslims to broadcast the Islamic prayer call at least three times a day from the minaret.
Surely most Muslims living in East Oxford will have watches, mobile phones and abundant electronic means of knowing the time without needing a broadcast call?
Living indoors, or travelling in cars, as people do in our climate, we wonder how many decibels will be needed to penetrate the brick, metal and double glazing for the call to get through.
We have heard it said that Muslims do not like the ringing of church bells. Yet bells are part of the ancient culture of the West, especially in a medieval city. A bell, moreover, is simply a musical signal.
But the prayer call is an explicit theological statement in Arabic words about, among other things, the prophetic status of Mohammed. To put it plainly, it is public preaching.
How would Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus and atheists react if every church applied to broadcast an amplified recitation of The Lord's Prayer from its tower several times each day?
And unlike the prayer call, which we understand takes around two minutes, The Lord's Prayer would take only 35 seconds at most. If the Central Mosque gets its three daily calls, when will it next press for all five, from dawn to dusk?
And when will the other five mosques in the area seek permission to do likewise, and blanket East Oxford with up to 30 prayer calls a day?
Like many people we have spoken to, we strongly object to having Islam thrust upon us when sitting in the garden or having the windows open in summer, or indeed when walking in the street.
It would open up a public health issue of noise nuisance, especially for people living in the Divinity and Southfield Road area, where the majority of residents are not Muslims.
It would also infringe their human right not to have to endure another person's religion forced upon them by inescapable public preaching.
Or is this whole application simply an attempt to use English law to make Islam the public religion of East Oxford?
ALLAN CHAPMAN (Dr)
RACHEL CHAPMAN
East Oxford
1:23pm Wednesday 12th December 2007
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CommentPosted by: John Martin, East Oxford on 8:51pm Wed 12 Dec 07
I 100% agree with this letter , well said and put very well it puts over exactly why I and anyone have talked to about this are dismayed by the Central mosques plan to broadcast amplified Islamic propaganda at least 3 times a day for minutes at atime.
I 100% agree with this letter , well said and put very well it puts over exactly why I and anyone have talked to about this are dismayed by the Central mosques plan to broadcast amplified Islamic propaganda at least 3 times a day for minutes at atime.
Posted by: Practising Catholic, Oxford on 11:08pm Wed 12 Dec 07
I think your fears are exaggerated and don't believe that the call to prayer will be anywhere near as intrusive as you think.Instead of shutting your mind to Islam, find out more about the call to prayer. There is nothing in it which would offend any practising Christian or Jew: it has much in common with these other two monotheistic religions. We can all moan about people whose way of life is different to ours. Personally,I don't like the lurid commercialism of much of Cornmarket, but if you don't want to live with it, you'd better move to somewhere in the sticks away from the rich and diverse culture which we can all enjoy in Oxford if we're a bit more informed and open-minded.
I think your fears are exaggerated and don't believe that the call to prayer will be anywhere near as intrusive as you think.Instead of shutting your mind to Islam, find out more about the call to prayer. There is nothing in it which would offend any practising Christian or Jew: it has much in common with these other two monotheistic religions. We can all moan about people whose way of life is different to ours. Personally,I don't like the lurid commercialism of much of Cornmarket, but if you don't want to live with it, you'd better move to somewhere in the sticks away from the rich and diverse culture which we can all enjoy in Oxford if we're a bit more informed and open-minded.
Posted by: Tarbatt on 9:31am Thu 13 Dec 07
I completely agree with the Chapmans, an amplified call to prayer should not be allowed.
I completely agree with the Chapmans, an amplified call to prayer should not be allowed.
Posted by: alan page on 9:48am Thu 13 Dec 07
For somebody with a PHD to pen such a nasty, biased piece of writing shows exactly what is wrong with our educational system.
In Birmingham, several mosques would practice this rite, with no ill effects to the neighbourhood whatsoever.
For somebody with a PHD to pen such a nasty, biased piece of writing shows exactly what is wrong with our educational system.
In Birmingham, several mosques would practice this rite, with no ill effects to the neighbourhood whatsoever.
Posted by: Bob Howse, Costa Packet on 10:42am Thu 13 Dec 07
That's rich coming from Alan 'I'm Up My Own Arse' Page-who lives in Stockbroker belt Surrey!? but feels qualified to comment on Oxford.
That's rich coming from Alan 'I'm Up My Own Arse' Page-who lives in Stockbroker belt Surrey!? but feels qualified to comment on Oxford.
Posted by: alan page on 2:14pm Thu 13 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Bob Howse[/bold] wrote:
That's rich coming from Alan 'I'm Up My Own Arse' Page-who lives in Stockbroker belt Surrey!? but feels qualified to comment on Oxford.[/quote] I actually live on a council estate in Surrey.
About as far removed from any stockbroker belt as can be imagined.
Lived for 10 years in birmingham and 5 in Oxford.
I think that makes eminently suited to comment on all available counts
However apart from all of theses factual anomalies/errors in your post, you are totally on the button.
Bob Howse wrote:
That's rich coming from Alan 'I'm Up My Own Arse' Page-who lives in Stockbroker belt Surrey!? but feels qualified to comment on Oxford.
I actually live on a council estate in Surrey.
About as far removed from any stockbroker belt as can be imagined.
Lived for 10 years in birmingham and 5 in Oxford.
I think that makes eminently suited to comment on all available counts
However apart from all of theses factual anomalies/errors in your post, you are totally on the button.
Posted by: Ricchie, Rose Hill on 9:31pm Thu 13 Dec 07
When churches can open in Saudi in the same numbers as mosques have opened over here since 1945....
Otherwise :NO.
When churches can open in Saudi in the same numbers as mosques have opened over here since 1945....
Otherwise :NO.
Posted by: Pete, Oxford on 12:05am Fri 14 Dec 07
If "practicising catholic" thinks there is nothing in the Islamic call to prayer which is offensive to Christians and Jews (Hindus, Sikhs, Atheists etc.) then I would suggest it is him/her who needs to find out more about Islam. Try www.faithfreedom.org
If "practicising catholic" thinks there is nothing in the Islamic call to prayer which is offensive to Christians and Jews (Hindus, Sikhs, Atheists etc.) then I would suggest it is him/her who needs to find out more about Islam. Try www.faithfreedom.org
Posted by: alan page on 12:02pm Fri 14 Dec 07
Then let's just abolish all forms of religious activity altogether.
Close down every temple, church, mosque, prohibit religious groupings from meeting altogether.
Then listen to all the whining bigots complaining.
If you sad bigots can't extend tolerance to the practices of others then the same tolerance should not be extended to you
And before some chartered accountant who had his toothache cured by God at a church service last Sunday comes up with the usual "oh, they ban christianity in moslem countries whine whine whine" well surely that makes it more in christianities favour to allow freedom of worship in this country.
God, if only the religious knew just how much their delusional drivel offended the non religious, and how much better off the world would be without the narrow, sectarian dogmas these creeps foster, they would think twice before whining on in the way they do.
Then let's just abolish all forms of religious activity altogether.
Close down every temple, church, mosque, prohibit religious groupings from meeting altogether.
Then listen to all the whining bigots complaining.
If you sad bigots can't extend tolerance to the practices of others then the same tolerance should not be extended to you
And before some chartered accountant who had his toothache cured by God at a church service last Sunday comes up with the usual "oh, they ban christianity in moslem countries whine whine whine" well surely that makes it more in christianities favour to allow freedom of worship in this country.
God, if only the religious knew just how much their delusional drivel offended the non religious, and how much better off the world would be without the narrow, sectarian dogmas these creeps foster, they would think twice before whining on in the way they do.
Posted by: Phil Gale, Oxford on 2:31pm Fri 14 Dec 07
[quote]if only the religious knew just how much their delusional drivel offended the non religious, and how much better off the world would be without the narrow, sectarian dogmas these creeps foster, they would think twice before whining on in the way they do.[/quote]
Whereas the non-religious never whine, nor perpetuate pointless arguments, nor make personal attacks
if only the religious knew just how much their delusional drivel offended the non religious, and how much better off the world would be without the narrow, sectarian dogmas these creeps foster, they would think twice before whining on in the way they do.
Whereas the non-religious never whine, nor perpetuate pointless arguments, nor make personal attacks
Posted by: Tarbatt on 3:45pm Fri 14 Dec 07
[italic]God, if only the religious knew just how much their delusional drivel offended the non religious[/italic]
God? Why are you talking to God, Alan, surely you know he doesn't exist?
God, if only the religious knew just how much their delusional drivel offended the non religious
God? Why are you talking to God, Alan, surely you know he doesn't exist?
Posted by: Robert Walker, Iffley on 7:02pm Mon 17 Dec 07
i think that the architecture is abhorrent enough, let alone the further damage to the street environment of this noise disturbance. from hinksey, these large mosques spoil the roofline of oxford (though admittedly it's quite a mess already!) what's wrong with keeping the traditional english scene? i personally would find wailing from the tower hugely intrusive, as i have done in other parts of UK and the world where the practise is permitted. is this not sneaking around planning conditions by the back door?
i think that the architecture is abhorrent enough, let alone the further damage to the street environment of this noise disturbance. from hinksey, these large mosques spoil the roofline of oxford (though admittedly it's quite a mess already!) what's wrong with keeping the traditional english scene? i personally would find wailing from the tower hugely intrusive, as i have done in other parts of UK and the world where the practise is permitted. is this not sneaking around planning conditions by the back door?
Posted by: Peter Westhoff, Oxford on 12:28pm Thu 19 Jun 08
[italic][quote]"There is nothing in it which would offend any practising Christian or Jew: it has much in common with these other two monotheistic religions."[/quote][/italic]
Whoever said this should read the Quran. The Quran says to kill the Christians and the Jews unless they submit to islamic law and live as second class citizens (Dhimmi) in the islamic state.
It is often claimed that Islam is a religion of peace. However islamic 'peace' can only be where Allah's word is spread, the islamic state established and the its law (Sharia) is practised.
I say it again - read the Quran.
"There is nothing in it which would offend any practising Christian or Jew: it has much in common with these other two monotheistic religions."
Whoever said this should read the Quran. The Quran says to kill the Christians and the Jews unless they submit to islamic law and live as second class citizens (Dhimmi) in the islamic state.
It is often claimed that Islam is a religion of peace. However islamic 'peace' can only be where Allah's word is spread, the islamic state established and the its law (Sharia) is practised.
I say it again - read the Quran.
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