The Bishop of Oxford has rejected another senior clergyman's fears that broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer in East Oxford could create a "no-go area" for non-Muslims.
The Rt Rev John Pritchard backed plans for the call to prayer in Oxford - splitting away from controversial comments made by the Anglican Church's only Asian Bishop, the Rt Rev Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, of Rochester.
Bishop Michael said attempts were being made to impose an "Islamic character" on communities, creating no-go areas where people of different faiths would find it hard to live and work.
But Bishop John said: "I want to distance myself from what the Bishop of Rochester has said.
"There are no no-go areas in this country that we are aware of and in all parts of the country there are good interfaith relationships developing."
Leaders at Oxford's Central Mosque, in Manzil Way, are considering asking for planning permission to issue the call to prayer from the mosque - and Bishop John said he was "very happy" with the move.
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He said: "I believe we have good relationships with the Muslim community here in Oxford and I am personally very happy for the mosque to call the faithful to prayer in East Oxford.
"Faith is a very important factor in the lives of 80 per cent of the world's population and a public expression of that faith is both natural and reasonable."
Bishop John said practical issues over the number of times the call went out, the volume and whether a trial period would be required would need to be ironed out but said in principle it was "entirely reasonable".
He said: "I would say to anyone who has concerns about the call to prayer to relax and enjoy our community diversity and be as respectful to others as you would hope they would be respectful to you."
He added: "I sympathise with those who find any kind of expression of public faith intrusive, but I think part of being part of a tolerant society is saying, 'I don't agree with this but I accept it as part of my responsibility as being part of a diverse community'."
Bishop Michael told the Sunday Telegraph that non-Muslims faced a hostile relationship in places dominated by the ideology of Islamic radicals.
He used the amplification of the call to prayer as an example of how an Islamic character was being imposed on certain areas and said this resulted in alienating young non-Muslims.
An application for planning permission for the call to prayer at Oxford's Central Mosque has not yet been submitted.
Sardar Rana, a spokesman for the mosque, said he was "100 per cent sure" people would like the call to prayer when they heard it.
Posted by: Eric Shrewsbury, Nuneham Courtenay on 7:35am Fri 11 Jan 08
Is the Bishop of Oxford prepared to live next door to the Mosque, and is he aware that the call to prayer will occur 5 times each day.
Having spent some 21 of the past 30 years in the Middle East, 13 of those in Saudi Arabia, where Christianity is not tolerated in any form, I find the Bishop of Oxfords comments comments about respect and tolerance to be typical of the P.C. brigades appeasement policies.
Is the Bishop of Oxford prepared to live next door to the Mosque, and is he aware that the call to prayer will occur 5 times each day.
Having spent some 21 of the past 30 years in the Middle East, 13 of those in Saudi Arabia, where Christianity is not tolerated in any form, I find the Bishop of Oxfords comments comments about respect and tolerance to be typical of the P.C. brigades appeasement policies.
[quote]The Bishop of Oxford has rejected another senior clergyman's fears that broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer in East Oxford could create a "no-go area" for non-Muslims.[/quote]
It has already for me. If this ridiculous idea is allowed to go ahead I will not go to the Cowley Road for any reason.
The Bishop of Oxford has rejected another senior clergyman's fears that broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer in East Oxford could create a "no-go area" for non-Muslims.
It has already for me. If this ridiculous idea is allowed to go ahead I will not go to the Cowley Road for any reason.
My brother lives and works in Saudi :where to be an open Christian is not at all easy.He cannot for example wear a cross where anyone can see it, never mind hearing church bells.He cannot just walk into any Mosque either (try this in the UK as well !) unlike churches, open to all, whether you have faith or none. Sorry Bishop : you are selling out your own faith and just asking for Christians to be trampled on even further. If you want to hear the Call to Pray to Allah...then I suggest you resign and move to Saudi Arabia. I have much respect for Muslims practising their faith, but this is the UK and until there is equal freedom for Christians in Muslim lands I think it very unwise to release the Call over here.
My brother lives and works in Saudi :where to be an open Christian is not at all easy.He cannot for example wear a cross where anyone can see it, never mind hearing church bells.He cannot just walk into any Mosque either (try this in the UK as well !) unlike churches, open to all, whether you have faith or none. Sorry Bishop : you are selling out your own faith and just asking for Christians to be trampled on even further. If you want to hear the Call to Pray to Allah...then I suggest you resign and move to Saudi Arabia. I have much respect for Muslims practising their faith, but this is the UK and until there is equal freedom for Christians in Muslim lands I think it very unwise to release the Call over here.
Posted by: Atheist, Oxford on 8:46am Fri 11 Jan 08
Er, isn't part of the Bishop's point that we [italic]don't[/italic] live in a place like Saudi Arabia, but rather a country that tolerates different faiths? Isn't one of the Christian teachings to treat others as you would be treated yourself? If so, then we should be showing tolerance and acceptance to muslims in the UK as an example, rather than holding them to ransom until another country - that they chose not to live in - conforms to our ideas. Making the UK into a Christian version of Saudi makes us no better.
Er, isn't part of the Bishop's point that we don't live in a place like Saudi Arabia, but rather a country that tolerates different faiths? Isn't one of the Christian teachings to treat others as you would be treated yourself? If so, then we should be showing tolerance and acceptance to muslims in the UK as an example, rather than holding them to ransom until another country - that they chose not to live in - conforms to our ideas. Making the UK into a Christian version of Saudi makes us no better.
As one of the last bastions of East Oxford. i.e. A Familly, when weve all finally moved, because life is just to unbearable and full of resentment. Then East Oxford will truly have become the Ghetto so many people seem to crave.
As one of the last bastions of East Oxford. i.e. A Familly, when weve all finally moved, because life is just to unbearable and full of resentment. Then East Oxford will truly have become the Ghetto so many people seem to crave.
Posted by: The One, Oxford, The Moon on 8:57am Fri 11 Jan 08
The fact that they don't allow churches etc in Saudi should not bare any relevance to what we have here. 2 wrongs etc. If this goes ahead then fine, the only reason to appose this is planning reasons, i.e noise, not simply because they are not tollerant in Saudi. Also, I doubt it would be 5 times a day and certainly not at 5am or whatever it is.
The fact that they don't allow churches etc in Saudi should not bare any relevance to what we have here. 2 wrongs etc. If this goes ahead then fine, the only reason to appose this is planning reasons, i.e noise, not simply because they are not tollerant in Saudi. Also, I doubt it would be 5 times a day and certainly not at 5am or whatever it is.
Absolutely mad! What planet is the bishop on?
More PC crap and ethnic diversity rubbish! Ask a muslim what they really think of other religions! If they're honest they'll tell you it's about respect and how they have a complete lack of it to anyone who is 'non believer'.
The whole world is going mad - full of religous zealots from all religions and full of climate change idiots too. Let's have some sanity please.
Absolutely mad! What planet is the bishop on?
More PC crap and ethnic diversity rubbish! Ask a muslim what they really think of other religions! If they're honest they'll tell you it's about respect and how they have a complete lack of it to anyone who is 'non believer'.
The whole world is going mad - full of religous zealots from all religions and full of climate change idiots too. Let's have some sanity please.
Posted by: Mac Attack, Oxford on 10:10am Fri 11 Jan 08
If the Muslims are allowed to have their "Call to Prayer", then I should be allowed to broadcast an Atheist "Call to Reason". Maybe a selection of Richard Dawkins quotes would be appropriate?
Perhaps this one: [italic]"By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out"[/italic]
If the Muslims are allowed to have their "Call to Prayer", then I should be allowed to broadcast an Atheist "Call to Reason". Maybe a selection of Richard Dawkins quotes would be appropriate?
Perhaps this one: "By all means let's be open-minded, but not so open-minded that our brains drop out"
Posted by: Mark, just off Cowley Road on 10:18am Fri 11 Jan 08
I am a Christian but not C.of E. and the Bishop of Oxford does not represent me. I don't want intrusive noise pollution just because he doesn't live in the area but wants to make a Politically Correct gesture of some kind. Let him have it in his own non-ghetto back yard and see how he likes it. It's bad enough that we seem to have the star and crescent things on the lamposts seemingly all year round. Does the council really want to complete the ghettoisation of the area?
Muslims and non-muslims are not treated the same by the law either. I remember when the police raided that muslim landlord (with loads of rented properties in Oxford) for charges of fraud, etc, and for the 'raid' the police removed their boots after knocking on the guys door and didn't bring their alsations into his house so they wouldn't offend his religious sensibilities: apparently he thought it was OK to swindle but lets not put police dogs in his house or dirty his carpet with boots. If he was not a muslim, that mans door would have come off at the hinges at dawn and the dogs would have been everywhere and the boots would have stayed on. Politically Correct Policing.
I am a Christian but not C.of E. and the Bishop of Oxford does not represent me. I don't want intrusive noise pollution just because he doesn't live in the area but wants to make a Politically Correct gesture of some kind. Let him have it in his own non-ghetto back yard and see how he likes it. It's bad enough that we seem to have the star and crescent things on the lamposts seemingly all year round. Does the council really want to complete the ghettoisation of the area?
Muslims and non-muslims are not treated the same by the law either. I remember when the police raided that muslim landlord (with loads of rented properties in Oxford) for charges of fraud, etc, and for the 'raid' the police removed their boots after knocking on the guys door and didn't bring their alsations into his house so they wouldn't offend his religious sensibilities: apparently he thought it was OK to swindle but lets not put police dogs in his house or dirty his carpet with boots. If he was not a muslim, that mans door would have come off at the hinges at dawn and the dogs would have been everywhere and the boots would have stayed on. Politically Correct Policing.
I Live next to a church. If people argue about noise pollution the call to prayer will make, then can you not state that the ringing of church bells also causes noise pollution and should they be staoped?? Im sure if you were to compare the different levels of noise between the two then you would find that the bells are much louder!
I Live next to a church. If people argue about noise pollution the call to prayer will make, then can you not state that the ringing of church bells also causes noise pollution and should they be staoped?? Im sure if you were to compare the different levels of noise between the two then you would find that the bells are much louder!
Posted by: Pat Hennings, Oxford on 10:38am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Mark[/bold] wrote:
I am a Christian but not C.of E. and the Bishop of Oxford does not represent me. I don't want intrusive noise pollution just because he doesn't live in the area but wants to make a Politically Correct gesture of some kind. Let him have it in his own non-ghetto back yard and see how he likes it. It's bad enough that we seem to have the star and crescent things on the lamposts seemingly all year round. Does the council really want to complete the ghettoisation of the area? Muslims and non-muslims are not treated the same by the law either. I remember when the police raided that muslim landlord (with loads of rented properties in Oxford) for charges of fraud, etc, and for the 'raid' the police removed their boots after knocking on the guys door and didn't bring their alsations into his house so they wouldn't offend his religious sensibilities: apparently he thought it was OK to swindle but lets not put police dogs in his house or dirty his carpet with boots. If he was not a muslim, that mans door would have come off at the hinges at dawn and the dogs would have been everywhere and the boots would have stayed on. Politically Correct Policing.[/quote] I think that you need to get your facts right first of all! The police didnt take off their boots and nor did they require the dogs to go in. I think you might be jealous of a very successful man. As for the treatment, the muslims get alot of stick from the police. You dont see the police picking up any non-muslim person for no reason and whisking them away for SUSPISTION of terrorist activities?? May be you should stop and look in the mirror
Mark wrote:
I am a Christian but not C.of E. and the Bishop of Oxford does not represent me. I don't want intrusive noise pollution just because he doesn't live in the area but wants to make a Politically Correct gesture of some kind. Let him have it in his own non-ghetto back yard and see how he likes it. It's bad enough that we seem to have the star and crescent things on the lamposts seemingly all year round. Does the council really want to complete the ghettoisation of the area? Muslims and non-muslims are not treated the same by the law either. I remember when the police raided that muslim landlord (with loads of rented properties in Oxford) for charges of fraud, etc, and for the 'raid' the police removed their boots after knocking on the guys door and didn't bring their alsations into his house so they wouldn't offend his religious sensibilities: apparently he thought it was OK to swindle but lets not put police dogs in his house or dirty his carpet with boots. If he was not a muslim, that mans door would have come off at the hinges at dawn and the dogs would have been everywhere and the boots would have stayed on. Politically Correct Policing.
I think that you need to get your facts right first of all! The police didnt take off their boots and nor did they require the dogs to go in. I think you might be jealous of a very successful man. As for the treatment, the muslims get alot of stick from the police. You dont see the police picking up any non-muslim person for no reason and whisking them away for SUSPISTION of terrorist activities?? May be you should stop and look in the mirror
Posted by: Mr Nimby, Cowley on 10:41am Fri 11 Jan 08
I don't want the muslim loadspeaker calls and I don't want the church bells either! I don't put my religious beliefs in other peoples faces and I don't want anyone to give me theirs. Its a private thing and I don't speak Arabic and I doubt that most people in Cowley Road area speak Arabic either, so why their should be Arabic-centric calls to prayer for an Arabic-centric religion, I don't know. I am told by a few friends who saw for themselves that some muslim owned shops in Cowely Road were oopen on Christmas Day, such is the feeling of mutual respect of religions in the area.
I don't want the muslim loadspeaker calls and I don't want the church bells either! I don't put my religious beliefs in other peoples faces and I don't want anyone to give me theirs. Its a private thing and I don't speak Arabic and I doubt that most people in Cowley Road area speak Arabic either, so why their should be Arabic-centric calls to prayer for an Arabic-centric religion, I don't know. I am told by a few friends who saw for themselves that some muslim owned shops in Cowely Road were oopen on Christmas Day, such is the feeling of mutual respect of religions in the area.
Posted by: Mike, Wallingford on 10:43am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]I.A[/bold] wrote:
I Live next to a church. If people argue about noise pollution the call to prayer will make, then can you not state that the ringing of church bells also causes noise pollution and should they be staoped?? Im sure if you were to compare the different levels of noise between the two then you would find that the bells are much louder![/quote] Silly argument!! You get church bells ONCE on a Sunday which is traditional in a Christian country. What is proposed is a wailing call to prayer, completely incomprehensible to the indigenous population, 35 times in a week!!
I.A wrote:
I Live next to a church. If people argue about noise pollution the call to prayer will make, then can you not state that the ringing of church bells also causes noise pollution and should they be staoped?? Im sure if you were to compare the different levels of noise between the two then you would find that the bells are much louder!
Silly argument!! You get church bells ONCE on a Sunday which is traditional in a Christian country. What is proposed is a wailing call to prayer, completely incomprehensible to the indigenous population, 35 times in a week!!
Posted by: Mike Hock, Cowley too on 10:49am Fri 11 Jan 08
Yeah Pat, the man was "successful" in swindling a lot of money. That is success, until they caught him. I have looked at my dictionary and I can't find "SUSPISTION" in there at all. You must be one of those (partially illiterate) 9/11 conspiracy theorists who think that the whole thing was CGI. Go to Pakistan and vote for Bhutto. Oh sorry, it's not possible, is it? Why is that? OK, go to Saudi Arabia and pay in a church. Erm maybe not. Well, go to Afghanistan and try and live a normal life. Or Iran where you might enjoy the attentions of the 'cultural police'. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is feeble minded P.C. people like you that allow ghettos to come into being. "Successful man" my foot! Thief and swindler would be a suitable description.
Yeah Pat, the man was "successful" in swindling a lot of money. That is success, until they caught him. I have looked at my dictionary and I can't find "SUSPISTION" in there at all. You must be one of those (partially illiterate) 9/11 conspiracy theorists who think that the whole thing was CGI. Go to Pakistan and vote for Bhutto. Oh sorry, it's not possible, is it? Why is that? OK, go to Saudi Arabia and pay in a church. Erm maybe not. Well, go to Afghanistan and try and live a normal life. Or Iran where you might enjoy the attentions of the 'cultural police'. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is feeble minded P.C. people like you that allow ghettos to come into being. "Successful man" my foot! Thief and swindler would be a suitable description.
Posted by: DanOxford, Oxford on 11:01am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]The One, Oxford[/bold] wrote:
The fact that they don't allow churches etc in Saudi should not bare any relevance to what we have here. 2 wrongs etc. If this goes ahead then fine, the only reason to appose this is planning reasons, i.e noise, not simply because they are not tollerant in Saudi. Also, I doubt it would be 5 times a day and certainly not at 5am or whatever it is.[/quote] It [bold]IS[/bold] entirely relevant as it shows how this call to prayer is nothing more than a show of strength for Islam (I'm sure Oxford Muslims have some other way of knowing when prayers are- a watch for example...), and gives an indication of the kind of 'tolerance' we can expect once Islam is allowed to gain any sort of a visible or audible public foothold in Oxford or the UK.
This is not a cse of not allowing this because the tolerance is not reciprocated in Islamic countries, it is a warning of what life is like under Islam for non- muslims.
The One, Oxford wrote:
The fact that they don't allow churches etc in Saudi should not bare any relevance to what we have here. 2 wrongs etc. If this goes ahead then fine, the only reason to appose this is planning reasons, i.e noise, not simply because they are not tollerant in Saudi. Also, I doubt it would be 5 times a day and certainly not at 5am or whatever it is.
It IS entirely relevant as it shows how this call to prayer is nothing more than a show of strength for Islam (I'm sure Oxford Muslims have some other way of knowing when prayers are- a watch for example...), and gives an indication of the kind of 'tolerance' we can expect once Islam is allowed to gain any sort of a visible or audible public foothold in Oxford or the UK.
This is not a cse of not allowing this because the tolerance is not reciprocated in Islamic countries, it is a warning of what life is like under Islam for non- muslims.
It not like in the US where a religious group introduced forced circumcision.
Although the same religious group seek to remove the time honoured Blasphemy laws in England.
It not like in the US where a religious group introduced forced circumcision.
Although the same religious group seek to remove the time honoured Blasphemy laws in England.
Posted by: DanOxford, Oxford on 11:05am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Mike Hock[/bold] wrote:
Yeah Pat, the man was "successful" in swindling a lot of money. That is success, until they caught him. I have looked at my dictionary and I can't find "SUSPISTION" in there at all. You must be one of those (partially illiterate) 9/11 conspiracy theorists who think that the whole thing was CGI. Go to Pakistan and vote for Bhutto. Oh sorry, it's not possible, is it? Why is that? OK, go to Saudi Arabia and pay in a church. Erm maybe not. Well, go to Afghanistan and try and live a normal life. Or Iran where you might enjoy the attentions of the 'cultural police'. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is feeble minded P.C. people like you that allow ghettos to come into being. "Successful man" my foot! Thief and swindler would be a suitable description.[/quote] Indeed- and illegally bringing members of his family into the Country and then fraudulently charging the tax payer (through social services) to support them.
Can anyone tell me what the Sharia Law sentence would have been for the actions of this parasite?
Mike Hock wrote:
Yeah Pat, the man was "successful" in swindling a lot of money. That is success, until they caught him. I have looked at my dictionary and I can't find "SUSPISTION" in there at all. You must be one of those (partially illiterate) 9/11 conspiracy theorists who think that the whole thing was CGI. Go to Pakistan and vote for Bhutto. Oh sorry, it's not possible, is it? Why is that? OK, go to Saudi Arabia and pay in a church. Erm maybe not. Well, go to Afghanistan and try and live a normal life. Or Iran where you might enjoy the attentions of the 'cultural police'. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is feeble minded P.C. people like you that allow ghettos to come into being. "Successful man" my foot! Thief and swindler would be a suitable description.
Indeed- and illegally bringing members of his family into the Country and then fraudulently charging the tax payer (through social services) to support them.
Can anyone tell me what the Sharia Law sentence would have been for the actions of this parasite?
Posted by: Oxford Crusader, Oxford on 11:08am Fri 11 Jan 08
These CofE cocktail political careerists - with a large dash of Marxism - such as the dhimmi Bishop, are the only sort who can afford to talk such rubbish. Why in this day and age should disproportionate weight be given to their views? They should try to pay more attention to improving the parlous state of their faith, than to naively meddling in practical politics.
I'll bet all England to a china orange, the Bishop couldn't give one solid example of Christian-Muslim partnership.
These CofE cocktail political careerists - with a large dash of Marxism - such as the dhimmi Bishop, are the only sort who can afford to talk such rubbish. Why in this day and age should disproportionate weight be given to their views? They should try to pay more attention to improving the parlous state of their faith, than to naively meddling in practical politics.
I'll bet all England to a china orange, the Bishop couldn't give one solid example of Christian-Muslim partnership.
Once more the residents of Oxford demonstrate kindness, compassion and tolerance.
I lived for couple of years in Sparkhill Birmingham.
Another "ghetto". The call to prayer was given regularly. I had no problems with it. It added to the colour of the place.
If there is ghettoisation then surely the blame lies with
a)Council housing policy
b)The attitudes of white residents as this demonstrates.
Perhaps opponents should try and imagine the issue concerns bunny wabbits. It seems the only thing that matters to the irrational bigots.
The problems in Saudi are political not religious. If people are fleeing from countries like that then it would seem to be because they would rather live under our democratic ways thsn under the scummy psuedo Islam being imposed in those countries.
Once more the residents of Oxford demonstrate kindness, compassion and tolerance.
I lived for couple of years in Sparkhill Birmingham.
Another "ghetto". The call to prayer was given regularly. I had no problems with it. It added to the colour of the place.
If there is ghettoisation then surely the blame lies with
a)Council housing policy
b)The attitudes of white residents as this demonstrates.
Perhaps opponents should try and imagine the issue concerns bunny wabbits. It seems the only thing that matters to the irrational bigots.
The problems in Saudi are political not religious. If people are fleeing from countries like that then it would seem to be because they would rather live under our democratic ways thsn under the scummy psuedo Islam being imposed in those countries.
Posted by: Yoda, Galaxy Far Away on 11:14am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Old Ben[/bold] wrote:
As a committed Jedi Knight I would love to play the Stars Wars theme to everyone down the Cowley Road to celebrate the birthday of Yoda. May the 4th.[/quote] The urine extract do you. Hmmm. A hundred Jedi handstand pressups as punishment must you do.
Old Ben wrote:
As a committed Jedi Knight I would love to play the Stars Wars theme to everyone down the Cowley Road to celebrate the birthday of Yoda. May the 4th.
The urine extract do you. Hmmm. A hundred Jedi handstand pressups as punishment must you do.
Posted by: Thomas Cruz, East Oxford-istan on 11:23am Fri 11 Jan 08
Dear Alan,
Why are you blaming white people? Who has mentioned race/racism? Apart from you. It is religion being put in the faces of people who don't want it and who don't want to live in a ghetto.
Saudi's problems are religious and not political. Next time Western workers are targetted in their housing compounds by Wahhabi terrorists with guns (it has happened a few times in the past and will reoccur), and the Saudi Police have the building surrounded, the leaders always escape by some 'blind spot' that wasn't covered by teh Police. How? Religious connections of the Wahabbi's who might be there with guns and their relations who tell the police not to nick them. Mark my words: next time this happens in Saudi Arabia, some ringleaders will escape. Wait and see.
Dear Alan,
Why are you blaming white people? Who has mentioned race/racism? Apart from you. It is religion being put in the faces of people who don't want it and who don't want to live in a ghetto.
Saudi's problems are religious and not political. Next time Western workers are targetted in their housing compounds by Wahhabi terrorists with guns (it has happened a few times in the past and will reoccur), and the Saudi Police have the building surrounded, the leaders always escape by some 'blind spot' that wasn't covered by teh Police. How? Religious connections of the Wahabbi's who might be there with guns and their relations who tell the police not to nick them. Mark my words: next time this happens in Saudi Arabia, some ringleaders will escape. Wait and see.
Posted by: Thomas Cruz, East Oxford-istan on 11:24am Fri 11 Jan 08
Dear Alan,
Why are you blaming white people? Who has mentioned race/racism? Apart from you. It is religion being put in the faces of people who don't want it and who don't want to live in a ghetto.
Saudi's problems are religious and not political. Next time Western workers are targetted in their housing compounds by Wahhabi terrorists with guns (it has happened a few times in the past and will reoccur), and the Saudi Police have the building surrounded, the leaders always escape by some 'blind spot' that wasn't covered by teh Police. How? Religious connections of the Wahabbi's who might be there with guns and their relations who tell the police not to nick them. Mark my words: next time this happens in Saudi Arabia, some ringleaders will escape. Wait and see. You can bet money on it.
Dear Alan,
Why are you blaming white people? Who has mentioned race/racism? Apart from you. It is religion being put in the faces of people who don't want it and who don't want to live in a ghetto.
Saudi's problems are religious and not political. Next time Western workers are targetted in their housing compounds by Wahhabi terrorists with guns (it has happened a few times in the past and will reoccur), and the Saudi Police have the building surrounded, the leaders always escape by some 'blind spot' that wasn't covered by teh Police. How? Religious connections of the Wahabbi's who might be there with guns and their relations who tell the police not to nick them. Mark my words: next time this happens in Saudi Arabia, some ringleaders will escape. Wait and see. You can bet money on it.
[quote][bold]Oxford Crusader[/bold] wrote:
These CofE cocktail political careerists - with a large dash of Marxism - such as the dhimmi Bishop, are the only sort who can afford to talk such rubbish. Why in this day and age should disproportionate weight be given to their views? They should try to pay more attention to improving the parlous state of their faith, than to naively meddling in practical politics. I'll bet all England to a china orange, the Bishop couldn't give one solid example of Christian-Muslim partnership. [/quote] There are many such interfaith gatherings going on.
You should try and step outside your own little ghetto at times.
A few years back Birmingham City Councils mindful of the fact that Nov-Jan was of particular interest in a multifaith context owing to thenumber of festivals in the period (from the Hindu "light" festival in November to Eid in January)tried to have the whole period named "Winterval" and sought to highlight and include each and every one under a collective banner and promote and highlight each as it happened.
This enlightened idea fell at the post as an organised white group put it out that the council were abolishing Christmas, giving wogs precedence over natives etc. etc.
I would have expected at least Oxford to be a little more enlightened. But as Hazlitt remarked if you want to maintain the illusion that Oxford is a genuine place of learning,don't talk to the inhabitants.
Oxford Crusader wrote:
These CofE cocktail political careerists - with a large dash of Marxism - such as the dhimmi Bishop, are the only sort who can afford to talk such rubbish. Why in this day and age should disproportionate weight be given to their views? They should try to pay more attention to improving the parlous state of their faith, than to naively meddling in practical politics. I'll bet all England to a china orange, the Bishop couldn't give one solid example of Christian-Muslim partnership.
There are many such interfaith gatherings going on.
You should try and step outside your own little ghetto at times.
A few years back Birmingham City Councils mindful of the fact that Nov-Jan was of particular interest in a multifaith context owing to thenumber of festivals in the period (from the Hindu "light" festival in November to Eid in January)tried to have the whole period named "Winterval" and sought to highlight and include each and every one under a collective banner and promote and highlight each as it happened.
This enlightened idea fell at the post as an organised white group put it out that the council were abolishing Christmas, giving wogs precedence over natives etc. etc.
I would have expected at least Oxford to be a little more enlightened. But as Hazlitt remarked if you want to maintain the illusion that Oxford is a genuine place of learning,don't talk to the inhabitants.
[quote][bold]Thomas Cruz[/bold] wrote:
Dear Alan, Why are you blaming white people? Who has mentioned race/racism? Apart from you. It is religion being put in the faces of people who don\'t want it and who don\'t want to live in a ghetto. Saudi\'s problems are religious and not political. Next time Western workers are targetted in their housing compounds by Wahhabi terrorists with guns (it has happened a few times in the past and will reoccur), and the Saudi Police have the building surrounded, the leaders always escape by some \'blind spot\' that wasn\'t covered by teh Police. How? Religious connections of the Wahabbi\'s who might be there with guns and their relations who tell the police not to nick them. Mark my words: next time this happens in Saudi Arabia, some ringleaders will escape. Wait and see.[/quote] The attitudes on here smack of "Little Englander, Wogs aht".
You clearly know bugger all about the political situation in the middle east, bugger all about Sufism, and probably believe that the Protestant vs Catholic struggle that has dogged this country for centuries was down to dogmatic disputes.
Your position is roughly the same as somebody holding Ian Paisley as a symbol of orthodox Christianity.
Thomas Cruz wrote:
Dear Alan, Why are you blaming white people? Who has mentioned race/racism? Apart from you. It is religion being put in the faces of people who don\'t want it and who don\'t want to live in a ghetto. Saudi\'s problems are religious and not political. Next time Western workers are targetted in their housing compounds by Wahhabi terrorists with guns (it has happened a few times in the past and will reoccur), and the Saudi Police have the building surrounded, the leaders always escape by some \'blind spot\' that wasn\'t covered by teh Police. How? Religious connections of the Wahabbi\'s who might be there with guns and their relations who tell the police not to nick them. Mark my words: next time this happens in Saudi Arabia, some ringleaders will escape. Wait and see.
The attitudes on here smack of "Little Englander, Wogs aht".
You clearly know bugger all about the political situation in the middle east, bugger all about Sufism, and probably believe that the Protestant vs Catholic struggle that has dogged this country for centuries was down to dogmatic disputes.
Your position is roughly the same as somebody holding Ian Paisley as a symbol of orthodox Christianity.
Posted by: Usama, Iffley, Oxford on 11:41am Fri 11 Jan 08
Thank you Alan. You tell those infidels. One day they will all convert to Islam and believe! Allahu Akbar! Cowley will be ours! Allahu Akbar! Everything for Islam! Allahu Akbar!
Thank you Alan. You tell those infidels. One day they will all convert to Islam and believe! Allahu Akbar! Cowley will be ours! Allahu Akbar! Everything for Islam! Allahu Akbar!
[quote][bold]Mike Hock[/bold] wrote:
Yeah Pat, the man was \"successful\" in swindling a lot of money. That is success, until they caught him. I have looked at my dictionary and I can\'t find \"SUSPISTION\" in there at all. You must be one of those (partially illiterate) 9/11 conspiracy theorists who think that the whole thing was CGI. Go to Pakistan and vote for Bhutto. Oh sorry, it\'s not possible, is it? Why is that? OK, go to Saudi Arabia and pay in a church. Erm maybe not. Well, go to Afghanistan and try and live a normal life. Or Iran where you might enjoy the attentions of the \'cultural police\'. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is feeble minded P.C. people like you that allow ghettos to come into being. \"Successful man\" my foot! Thief and swindler would be a suitable description.[/quote] And Ernest Saunders?
Those three guys who made millions through illegal trading on the stock market and have been "unfairly prosecuted"?
Are they all Moslems?
Or do you have a selective memory?
Mike Hock wrote:
Yeah Pat, the man was \"successful\" in swindling a lot of money. That is success, until they caught him. I have looked at my dictionary and I can\'t find \"SUSPISTION\" in there at all. You must be one of those (partially illiterate) 9/11 conspiracy theorists who think that the whole thing was CGI. Go to Pakistan and vote for Bhutto. Oh sorry, it\'s not possible, is it? Why is that? OK, go to Saudi Arabia and pay in a church. Erm maybe not. Well, go to Afghanistan and try and live a normal life. Or Iran where you might enjoy the attentions of the \'cultural police\'. Wake up and smell the coffee. It is feeble minded P.C. people like you that allow ghettos to come into being. \"Successful man\" my foot! Thief and swindler would be a suitable description.
And Ernest Saunders?
Those three guys who made millions through illegal trading on the stock market and have been "unfairly prosecuted"?
[quote][bold]Usama[/bold] wrote:
Thank you Alan. You tell those infidels. One day they will all convert to Islam and believe! Allahu Akbar! Cowley will be ours! Allahu Akbar! Everything for Islam! Allahu Akbar! [/quote] I don't believe for one minute you are genuine.
If you are then you are as big a cretin as the opponents.
Usama wrote:
Thank you Alan. You tell those infidels. One day they will all convert to Islam and believe! Allahu Akbar! Cowley will be ours! Allahu Akbar! Everything for Islam! Allahu Akbar!
I don't believe for one minute you are genuine.
If you are then you are as big a cretin as the opponents.
Posted by: Fan of Ian Brown, Oxford on 11:51am Fri 11 Jan 08
I read in an interview in a Guardian supplement a month back that singer Ian Brown, when he went to prison, told them that he was a muslim so that he would get chicken for dinner, and it worked. He got chicken meals instead of the generic 'meat' that the other non-muslim prisoners had. If they aren't getting preferential treatment in police raids compared with non-muslims then they get preferential treatment in prison. Nice!
I read in an interview in a Guardian supplement a month back that singer Ian Brown, when he went to prison, told them that he was a muslim so that he would get chicken for dinner, and it worked. He got chicken meals instead of the generic 'meat' that the other non-muslim prisoners had. If they aren't getting preferential treatment in police raids compared with non-muslims then they get preferential treatment in prison. Nice!
Posted by: DanOxford, Oxford on 11:59am Fri 11 Jan 08
Oh dear! Once again, Alan wades in on behalf of the 'underdog', turning the tables in an Orwellian display of 'doublespeak' where the Immans become the oppressed, the Oxford residents are those forcing their views upon others, Saudi Arabia's religious intolerance becomes 'political' and when residents found Birmingham City Council's attempts to stick individual religious events into a blender and create a 'winterval' smoothie hard to swallow, [bold]they[/bold] are the ones who are denounced!
I find 'Little Englander' in itself a racist and derogatory comment as it is not applied to any other nationality.
When immigrants want to create a little bit of their home Country in Oxford, it is called 'diversity' . When people who have been here for longer (let's not call them 'natives' or we trigger the whole 'England is a nation of iummigrants' myth...)want to oppose something that will alter their culture and way of life, they are 'bigots'.
If all else fails (as it inevitably does, given that Alan's arguments perpetually put everything down to the 'bourgeoisie' white drug taking forces of authority oppressing the downtrodden muslims/ illegal street pedlars/ victim of the week, there's always sneering at the residents of Oxford for being uneducated, ill-informed, racist, bigotted, inflexible or backward.
Frankly, it's tiresome.
Oh dear! Once again, Alan wades in on behalf of the 'underdog', turning the tables in an Orwellian display of 'doublespeak' where the Immans become the oppressed, the Oxford residents are those forcing their views upon others, Saudi Arabia's religious intolerance becomes 'political' and when residents found Birmingham City Council's attempts to stick individual religious events into a blender and create a 'winterval' smoothie hard to swallow, they are the ones who are denounced!
I find 'Little Englander' in itself a racist and derogatory comment as it is not applied to any other nationality.
When immigrants want to create a little bit of their home Country in Oxford, it is called 'diversity' . When people who have been here for longer (let's not call them 'natives' or we trigger the whole 'England is a nation of iummigrants' myth...)want to oppose something that will alter their culture and way of life, they are 'bigots'.
If all else fails (as it inevitably does, given that Alan's arguments perpetually put everything down to the 'bourgeoisie' white drug taking forces of authority oppressing the downtrodden muslims/ illegal street pedlars/ victim of the week, there's always sneering at the residents of Oxford for being uneducated, ill-informed, racist, bigotted, inflexible or backward.
Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn't have been in prison anyway!
Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong?
As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?
Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn't have been in prison anyway!
Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong?
As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?
Posted by: peries, cowley on 12:01pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Am a British Muslim of Pakistani dissent we have church bells in Pakistan & grave yard for our Christian Pakistani brothers they are elements in Pakistan that speak against this which I hate but now I have realised there are people here that hate the fact that Muslims are part of British society. I have seen people from all over the world practicing there religion peacefully I think my community should do the same
Am a British Muslim of Pakistani dissent we have church bells in Pakistan & grave yard for our Christian Pakistani brothers they are elements in Pakistan that speak against this which I hate but now I have realised there are people here that hate the fact that Muslims are part of British society. I have seen people from all over the world practicing there religion peacefully I think my community should do the same
[quote][bold]DanOxford[/bold] wrote:
Oh dear! Once again, Alan wades in on behalf of the \'underdog\', turning the tables in an Orwellian display of \'doublespeak\' where the Immans become the oppressed, the Oxford residents are those forcing their views upon others, Saudi Arabia\'s religious intolerance becomes \'political\' and when residents found Birmingham City Council\'s attempts to stick individual religious events into a blender and create a \'winterval\' smoothie hard to swallow, [bold]they[/bold] are the ones who are denounced! I find \'Little Englander\' in itself a racist and derogatory comment as it is not applied to any other nationality. When immigrants want to create a little bit of their home Country in Oxford, it is called \'diversity\' . When people who have been here for longer (let\'s not call them \'natives\' or we trigger the whole \'England is a nation of iummigrants\' myth...)want to oppose something that will alter their culture and way of life, they are \'bigots\'. If all else fails (as it inevitably does, given that Alan\'s arguments perpetually put everything down to the \'bourgeoisie\' white drug taking forces of authority oppressing the downtrodden muslims/ illegal street pedlars/ victim of the week, there\'s always sneering at the residents of Oxford for being uneducated, ill-informed, racist, bigotted, inflexible or backward. Frankly, it\'s tiresome.[/quote] And how many Imans have actually commented so far on this thread?
Can you see any?
Rather like scientists and fox hunters really arent they?
Bullied into silence by mouthy bigots who enjoy shouting their mouths off and are incapable of rational debate and argument.
As for my comments about the residents of Oxford. Well these message boards don't exactly give a positive picture do they?
You have only yourselves to blame!!
DanOxford wrote:
Oh dear! Once again, Alan wades in on behalf of the \'underdog\', turning the tables in an Orwellian display of \'doublespeak\' where the Immans become the oppressed, the Oxford residents are those forcing their views upon others, Saudi Arabia\'s religious intolerance becomes \'political\' and when residents found Birmingham City Council\'s attempts to stick individual religious events into a blender and create a \'winterval\' smoothie hard to swallow, they are the ones who are denounced! I find \'Little Englander\' in itself a racist and derogatory comment as it is not applied to any other nationality. When immigrants want to create a little bit of their home Country in Oxford, it is called \'diversity\' . When people who have been here for longer (let\'s not call them \'natives\' or we trigger the whole \'England is a nation of iummigrants\' myth...)want to oppose something that will alter their culture and way of life, they are \'bigots\'. If all else fails (as it inevitably does, given that Alan\'s arguments perpetually put everything down to the \'bourgeoisie\' white drug taking forces of authority oppressing the downtrodden muslims/ illegal street pedlars/ victim of the week, there\'s always sneering at the residents of Oxford for being uneducated, ill-informed, racist, bigotted, inflexible or backward. Frankly, it\'s tiresome.
And how many Imans have actually commented so far on this thread?
Can you see any?
Rather like scientists and fox hunters really arent they?
Bullied into silence by mouthy bigots who enjoy shouting their mouths off and are incapable of rational debate and argument.
As for my comments about the residents of Oxford. Well these message boards don't exactly give a positive picture do they?
[quote][bold]peries[/bold] wrote:
Am a British Muslim of Pakistani dissent we have church bells in Pakistan & grave yard for our Christian Pakistani brothers they are elements in Pakistan that speak against this which I hate but now I have realised there are people here that hate the fact that Muslims are part of British society. I have seen people from all over the world practicing there religion peacefully I think my community should do the same[/quote] Absolutley right!!
Don't take the views of these cretins as being representative.
Unless its furry and has four legs and a tail their desire is to hate and persecute it.
I think it was Rumi who put it succinctly:
"You probably consider yourself to be a believer, even if your faith is in atheism. The test of a real belief however is the ability to admit that your belief could be mistaken otherwise your belief is nothing but a variety of prejudice conditioned by your surroundings."
peries wrote:
Am a British Muslim of Pakistani dissent we have church bells in Pakistan & grave yard for our Christian Pakistani brothers they are elements in Pakistan that speak against this which I hate but now I have realised there are people here that hate the fact that Muslims are part of British society. I have seen people from all over the world practicing there religion peacefully I think my community should do the same
Absolutley right!!
Don't take the views of these cretins as being representative.
Unless its furry and has four legs and a tail their desire is to hate and persecute it.
I think it was Rumi who put it succinctly:
"You probably consider yourself to be a believer, even if your faith is in atheism. The test of a real belief however is the ability to admit that your belief could be mistaken otherwise your belief is nothing but a variety of prejudice conditioned by your surroundings."
Posted by: Penny Drops, Iffley-Cowley-Mag.Ro
ad triangle on 12:14pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Now I get it! Alan is a VEGETARIAN and COMMUNIST! Kind of people who think they know better than others and who want to impose their ideas on other people and nobody else can have an opinion. Keep tapping away at that keyboard like a demented gibbon Alan coz we can all do with a good laugh!!
Now I get it! Alan is a VEGETARIAN and COMMUNIST! Kind of people who think they know better than others and who want to impose their ideas on other people and nobody else can have an opinion. Keep tapping away at that keyboard like a demented gibbon Alan coz we can all do with a good laugh!!
This should be judged solely on the same grounds as any other planning application, which presumably is simply on the noise pollution aspect. It should have exactly the same chance of approval as that for any other organistation that wanted to broadcast messages of similar volume at the same times of day. There should be absolutely no special exemptions made for religion, but by the same token religious applications be specifically excluded because they're not Christian.
If the local shopping mall wanted to broadcast adverts in a similar way at similar times would that be allowed?
This should be judged solely on the same grounds as any other planning application, which presumably is simply on the noise pollution aspect. It should have exactly the same chance of approval as that for any other organistation that wanted to broadcast messages of similar volume at the same times of day. There should be absolutely no special exemptions made for religion, but by the same token religious applications be specifically excluded because they're not Christian.
If the local shopping mall wanted to broadcast adverts in a similar way at similar times would that be allowed?
In my comment above, I missed an important word out...
"but by the same token religious applications [bold]NOT[/bold] be specifically excluded because they're not Christian."
In my comment above, I missed an important word out...
"but by the same token religious applications NOT be specifically excluded because they're not Christian."
Posted by: Roger, East Oxford on 1:04pm Fri 11 Jan 08
This is too much. I dont want to hear other peoples relegion.
If they want to ring bells then fine as long as they are not too loud. Please can someone give me links to action agaisnt this as I will do everything in my power to stop it and protest againt it
This is too much. I dont want to hear other peoples relegion.
If they want to ring bells then fine as long as they are not too loud. Please can someone give me links to action agaisnt this as I will do everything in my power to stop it and protest againt it
Posted by: Roger, East Oxford on 1:21pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Tnhis is utterly disrespectful to all those who dont want tpo hear it. Church bells are only on Sundayt and have been a part of the English culture for millenia
Why on earth should I have to listen to this at 6:45 in rthe morning. Unbelievable that the idea should even be entertained.
I live very close and I will issue my own call via loudspeakerts at 6:45am, "keep the bloody noise down", oh and I 'm serious about that
Tnhis is utterly disrespectful to all those who dont want tpo hear it. Church bells are only on Sundayt and have been a part of the English culture for millenia
Why on earth should I have to listen to this at 6:45 in rthe morning. Unbelievable that the idea should even be entertained.
I live very close and I will issue my own call via loudspeakerts at 6:45am, "keep the bloody noise down", oh and I 'm serious about that
Posted by: Brit4Life, East oxford on 1:48pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Most of the comments on here opposing a call to prayer are from people who DO NOT reside in East Oxford. If you are from a little racist hillbilly town in oxfordshire countryside ie. wantage, wallingford, abingdon, etc, this is none of your business. Millions of Muslims are born in England, islam is also a british religion now. This is a natural and needed development. Instead of talking of Saudi (the worst example), let us talk of Turkey which prides itself on its beautiful churches and where the bell rings along side the Muslim call to prayer. There is no islamization taking place in oxford, simply some native british citizens practicing their religion. Most muslims are born here, we will not let the ignorant narrown minded citizens take away others birth right. People are talking of Christianity as though it is something english! Hilarious! It started in the middle east, as did islam, and made its way to england, as did islam.
The solution to the problem is sending all opposers back to school for a thorough education. only education will cure their ignorance.England was once a country with peace loving tolerant Christians, who accepted differences. Now we are faced with racist bigots of ignorance who shame us all with their intolerance.
Most of the comments on here opposing a call to prayer are from people who DO NOT reside in East Oxford. If you are from a little racist hillbilly town in oxfordshire countryside ie. wantage, wallingford, abingdon, etc, this is none of your business. Millions of Muslims are born in England, islam is also a british religion now. This is a natural and needed development. Instead of talking of Saudi (the worst example), let us talk of Turkey which prides itself on its beautiful churches and where the bell rings along side the Muslim call to prayer. There is no islamization taking place in oxford, simply some native british citizens practicing their religion. Most muslims are born here, we will not let the ignorant narrown minded citizens take away others birth right. People are talking of Christianity as though it is something english! Hilarious! It started in the middle east, as did islam, and made its way to england, as did islam.
The solution to the problem is sending all opposers back to school for a thorough education. only education will cure their ignorance.England was once a country with peace loving tolerant Christians, who accepted differences. Now we are faced with racist bigots of ignorance who shame us all with their intolerance.
Posted by: Roger, Cowley Rd area on 2:02pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Hold on a mo' Brit4Life, isn't this the same Turkey that denies human rights standards enjoyed in other countries to its Kurdish minority and who have recently invaded Iraq to kill Kurds? The same Turkey who in this modern day denies the genocide against the Armenians in 1915? The focus of discussion must be on Saudi rather than Turkey because Arabic language would be used for the proposed call to people who don't own watches to know what time they should pray.
Hold on a mo' Brit4Life, isn't this the same Turkey that denies human rights standards enjoyed in other countries to its Kurdish minority and who have recently invaded Iraq to kill Kurds? The same Turkey who in this modern day denies the genocide against the Armenians in 1915? The focus of discussion must be on Saudi rather than Turkey because Arabic language would be used for the proposed call to people who don't own watches to know what time they should pray.
To Brit4life, I do not have a problem at all with your posting. I do not have any religious bias, so please do not call me be a bigot. However, I have a huge problem with that horrendous noise imposing on my life. I too will do everything I can to stop it happening.
To Brit4life, I do not have a problem at all with your posting. I do not have any religious bias, so please do not call me be a bigot. However, I have a huge problem with that horrendous noise imposing on my life. I too will do everything I can to stop it happening.
Posted by: Roger, East Oxford on 2:03pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Brit4life
I am not only from East Oxford but close enough to the mosque to hear it.
Why on earth should I have this imposed on me at 6:45 in the morning. I do I need to be educated so I dont want to sleep in beyond 6:45 of a morning. It is an impostion and I would oppose anything making a noise at this time. Dont be so bloody rude
Brit4life
I am not only from East Oxford but close enough to the mosque to hear it.
Why on earth should I have this imposed on me at 6:45 in the morning. I do I need to be educated so I dont want to sleep in beyond 6:45 of a morning. It is an impostion and I would oppose anything making a noise at this time. Dont be so bloody rude
Posted by: Alan Page, Oxford on 2:21pm Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote:
Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?[/quote] You're not the real Alan Page!
Unmask yourself, varlet.
Please let's hear something from one of the [italic]real[/italic] Alan Pages.
alan page wrote:
Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?
You're not the real Alan Page!
Unmask yourself, varlet.
Please let's hear something from one of the real Alan Pages.
[quote][bold]Penny Drops[/bold] wrote:
Now I get it! Alan is a VEGETARIAN and COMMUNIST! Kind of people who think they know better than others and who want to impose their ideas on other people and nobody else can have an opinion. Keep tapping away at that keyboard like a demented gibbon Alan coz we can all do with a good laugh!! [/quote] Dear oh dear,
Yet more attempts to try and make an Aunt Sally.
I am not a vegetarian, though I respect people who have made that particular choice as long as they respect my right to eat meat.
I hve as much time for Communism as I do all other forms of organised beliefs. Communism was a confidence trick played by the middle classes. It essentially boiled down to State Capitalism. (Castro even banned Christmas at one stage because it distracted his workers from the all important job of keeping him in cigars and Brandy).
I have no problems with people having opinions as long as they are grounded on sensible arguments and the people holding them give some evidence of actually knowing what they are talking about and have actually thought it through.
Stillby opposing both vegetarianism and "Communism" at least we are now clear as to where these comments are actually coming from.
The word BNP central office spring to mind.
You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.
Penny Drops wrote:
Now I get it! Alan is a VEGETARIAN and COMMUNIST! Kind of people who think they know better than others and who want to impose their ideas on other people and nobody else can have an opinion. Keep tapping away at that keyboard like a demented gibbon Alan coz we can all do with a good laugh!!
Dear oh dear,
Yet more attempts to try and make an Aunt Sally.
I am not a vegetarian, though I respect people who have made that particular choice as long as they respect my right to eat meat.
I hve as much time for Communism as I do all other forms of organised beliefs. Communism was a confidence trick played by the middle classes. It essentially boiled down to State Capitalism. (Castro even banned Christmas at one stage because it distracted his workers from the all important job of keeping him in cigars and Brandy).
I have no problems with people having opinions as long as they are grounded on sensible arguments and the people holding them give some evidence of actually knowing what they are talking about and have actually thought it through.
Stillby opposing both vegetarianism and "Communism" at least we are now clear as to where these comments are actually coming from.
[quote][bold]Alan Page[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote: Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?[/quote] You're not the real Alan Page! Unmask yourself, varlet. Please let's hear something from one of the [italic]real[/italic] Alan Pages.[/quote] Ok, the real Alan Page knows the difference between the work of Anton Webern and the work of Alban Berg? Care to elaborate?
I think it is clear who the real one is.The level of argument contained in the post didnt relate to property values or personal convenience.
It clearly couldn't be the work of anybody in Oxford could it?
Alan Page wrote:
alan page wrote: Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?
You're not the real Alan Page! Unmask yourself, varlet. Please let's hear something from one of the real Alan Pages.
Ok, the real Alan Page knows the difference between the work of Anton Webern and the work of Alban Berg? Care to elaborate?
I think it is clear who the real one is.The level of argument contained in the post didnt relate to property values or personal convenience.
It clearly couldn't be the work of anybody in Oxford could it?
[quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Alan Page[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote: Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?[/quote] You're not the real Alan Page! Unmask yourself, varlet. Please let's hear something from one of the [italic]real[/italic] Alan Pages.[/quote] Ok, the real Alan Page knows the difference between the work of Anton Webern and the work of Alban Berg? Care to elaborate?
I think it is clear who the real one is.The level of argument contained in the post didnt relate to property values or personal convenience.
It clearly couldn't be the work of anybody in Oxford could it? [/quote] That, and I am gay and proud of it.
alan page wrote:
Alan Page wrote:
alan page wrote: Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?
You're not the real Alan Page! Unmask yourself, varlet. Please let's hear something from one of the real Alan Pages.
Ok, the real Alan Page knows the difference between the work of Anton Webern and the work of Alban Berg? Care to elaborate?
I think it is clear who the real one is.The level of argument contained in the post didnt relate to property values or personal convenience.
It clearly couldn't be the work of anybody in Oxford could it?
"Faith is a very important factor in the lives of 80 per cent of the world's population". Perhaps, but in the UK its only 7%. So what about the rest of us 93%?
So no, absolutely not. More noise pollution from yet another defunct and disproven belief system is certainly not the way forward. Please just shut-up and leave the rest of us relatively sane people in peace.
"Faith is a very important factor in the lives of 80 per cent of the world's population". Perhaps, but in the UK its only 7%. So what about the rest of us 93%?
So no, absolutely not. More noise pollution from yet another defunct and disproven belief system is certainly not the way forward. Please just shut-up and leave the rest of us relatively sane people in peace.
Brit4life..you said "If you are from a little racist 'hillbilly' town in oxfordshire countryside ie. wantage, wallingford, abingdon, etc" is this not as bad as me saying all muslims from cowley road are backward? I wonder how that would go down.
Brit4life..you said "If you are from a little racist 'hillbilly' town in oxfordshire countryside ie. wantage, wallingford, abingdon, etc" is this not as bad as me saying all muslims from cowley road are backward? I wonder how that would go down.
Posted by: alan page, oxford on 3:28pm Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Alan Page[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]alan page[/bold] wrote: Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?[/quote] You're not the real Alan Page! Unmask yourself, varlet. Please let's hear something from one of the [italic]real[/italic] Alan Pages.[/quote] Ok, the real Alan Page knows the difference between the work of Anton Webern and the work of Alban Berg? Care to elaborate? I think it is clear who the real one is.The level of argument contained in the post didnt relate to property values or personal convenience. It clearly couldn't be the work of anybody in Oxford could it? [/quote] That, and I am gay and proud of it.[/quote] The real Alan Page doesn't take drugs - if you are seeing weird optical now perspectives then you positively [italic]aren't[/italic] the real Alan.
alan page wrote:
alan page wrote:
Alan Page wrote:
alan page wrote: Well if Ian Brown was such a great role model he wouldn\'t have been in prison anyway! Suppose if he wanted a salad and posed as a vegetarian, would that make him wrong? As for preferential treatment I suppose you worked all over the Christmas period did you? Or did you pose as a christian and claim it as a holiday?
You're not the real Alan Page! Unmask yourself, varlet. Please let's hear something from one of the real Alan Pages.
Ok, the real Alan Page knows the difference between the work of Anton Webern and the work of Alban Berg? Care to elaborate? I think it is clear who the real one is.The level of argument contained in the post didnt relate to property values or personal convenience. It clearly couldn't be the work of anybody in Oxford could it?
That, and I am gay and proud of it.
The real Alan Page doesn't take drugs - if you are seeing weird optical now perspectives then you positively aren't the real Alan.
Posted by: Young friend of Alan, oxford or thereabouts on 3:33pm Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote]Dear oh dear,
Yet more attempts to try and make an Aunt Sally.[/quote]
What, out of Alan? Does that somehow connect with Alan's revelation about his wearing of a "red pencil skirt" which appeared in a post yesterday?
This post copyright (C) Alan Page Society for the Suppression of Vice, 2008.
Dear oh dear,
Yet more attempts to try and make an Aunt Sally.
What, out of Alan? Does that somehow connect with Alan's revelation about his wearing of a "red pencil skirt" which appeared in a post yesterday?
This post copyright (C) Alan Page Society for the Suppression of Vice, 2008.
Posted by: alan page, oxford on 3:39pm Fri 11 Jan 08
[italic]I have no problems with people having opinions as long as they are grounded on sensible arguments and the people holding them give some evidence of actually knowing what they are talking about and have actually thought it through.[/italic]
Alan - I'm afraid I must challenge your first assertion, that [quote]I have no problems[/quote] , as it flies in the face of the evidence.
Thanking you
Alan
I have no problems with people having opinions as long as they are grounded on sensible arguments and the people holding them give some evidence of actually knowing what they are talking about and have actually thought it through.
Alan - I'm afraid I must challenge your first assertion, that
The call to prayer from loudspeakers could be justified in illiterate countries where people would need reminding as they cannot tell the time, this doesnt apply here. Church bells have been silenced wherever they were a nuisance. There is every opportunity to inform via notice boards in mosques or email circulars etc. Loudspeakers are a massive intrusion especially to get the call (very loud)through closed doors and windows in our cooler climate. In Egypt doors and windows are usually open.
The call to prayer from loudspeakers could be justified in illiterate countries where people would need reminding as they cannot tell the time, this doesnt apply here. Church bells have been silenced wherever they were a nuisance. There is every opportunity to inform via notice boards in mosques or email circulars etc. Loudspeakers are a massive intrusion especially to get the call (very loud)through closed doors and windows in our cooler climate. In Egypt doors and windows are usually open.
Posted by: alan page, oxford on 3:58pm Fri 11 Jan 08
I certainly have no problems with the recent proposal to broadcast the traditional "Call to prayer (to Alan)" from loudspeakers mounted on the rooftop of Alan Page Associates PLC (trading as Alan page Global Domination Inc.) five times a day.
It goes like this:
Al-a-a-a-n akbar
Al-a-a-a-n akbar
It's really rather a marvellous thing and has nothing to do with vegetarianism, which I utterly oppose.
I certainly have no problems with the recent proposal to broadcast the traditional "Call to prayer (to Alan)" from loudspeakers mounted on the rooftop of Alan Page Associates PLC (trading as Alan page Global Domination Inc.) five times a day.
It goes like this:
Al-a-a-a-n akbar
Al-a-a-a-n akbar
It's really rather a marvellous thing and has nothing to do with vegetarianism, which I utterly oppose.
I think the issues are that to reach all of the worshippers who attend the Mosque it would need to be loud enough to be heard pretty much all over Oxfordshire. It is not really a call to worshippers at all, but a political ploy played out by people behind the thin veneer of 'cultural identity'.
Many many muslims I know thoroughly reject the idea as impractical and obtrusive.
For a reverse view, many Mosques in Egypt are being forced only to have the call sung and not played through speakers as residents of the MUSLIM country are finding the call intrusive when played through speakers.
With todays modern society, technology allows us to overcome the need for the call to be broadcast over speakers to the general populace. It can be transmitted by mobile phone and as many muslims already have allahu-akbar ringtones on their phones it is not an unreasonable alternative.
That said, as far a no-go area issue, Cowley Road is already practically a no-go area with the rubbish and filth both Labour and the Greens seem happy to ignore.
I think the issues are that to reach all of the worshippers who attend the Mosque it would need to be loud enough to be heard pretty much all over Oxfordshire. It is not really a call to worshippers at all, but a political ploy played out by people behind the thin veneer of 'cultural identity'.
Many many muslims I know thoroughly reject the idea as impractical and obtrusive.
For a reverse view, many Mosques in Egypt are being forced only to have the call sung and not played through speakers as residents of the MUSLIM country are finding the call intrusive when played through speakers.
With todays modern society, technology allows us to overcome the need for the call to be broadcast over speakers to the general populace. It can be transmitted by mobile phone and as many muslims already have allahu-akbar ringtones on their phones it is not an unreasonable alternative.
That said, as far a no-go area issue, Cowley Road is already practically a no-go area with the rubbish and filth both Labour and the Greens seem happy to ignore.
Posted by: Patrick Greene, Cowley on 4:35pm Fri 11 Jan 08
The Bishop of Oxford should be aware that we are not a muslim country and that to introduce muslim 'call to prayer'rituals in Oxford is a slight on christian values and should be resisted by the rest of the Oxford community. I believe that this is still a christian country despite efforts to try and change this. Dr Michael Nazir-Ali clearly identified this problem and we should be grateful for his intervention. The Bishop of Oxford should heed Bishop MIchael's words and concentrate his efforts toward tending his christian flock.
The Bishop of Oxford should be aware that we are not a muslim country and that to introduce muslim 'call to prayer'rituals in Oxford is a slight on christian values and should be resisted by the rest of the Oxford community. I believe that this is still a christian country despite efforts to try and change this. Dr Michael Nazir-Ali clearly identified this problem and we should be grateful for his intervention. The Bishop of Oxford should heed Bishop MIchael's words and concentrate his efforts toward tending his christian flock.
Posted by: DanOxford, Oxford on 4:51pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Brit4life barely merits a response (you have to draw the line somewhere...) but I must take issue with the repeated tendency to label anyone who disagrees with the continued undermining of English culture and social cohesion as ignorant or- in this case as 'hillbillies'.
The acceptance of Islam into British life is not a 'natural and needed development' (needed for [bold]WHAT[/bold] and by [bold]WHOM[/bold] ???) it is a [bold]MASSIVE[/bold] step backwards into the pre-enlightenmnet dark ages of reason- comparable with Christianity at around the time of the Inquistion.
It is far more accurate to say that until recently, a 'natural and needed' diminishing of religion was underway as science and reason chipped away at the very foundations of religions in all areas of the UK.
Religion was about occasional church bells, Christmas carols and social rites of passage- births, weddings, funerals.
Then, NuLabour's wonderful immigration policy, political correctness drive and multicultural mishmash approach meant that we suddenly started importing large numbers of people from places that were rather backward in their thinking due to poor communications, rural based economies and oppression and censorship based on religion or Communism. This has resulted in a situation where the conflicting views (mainly of Islam from the middle east and catholicism from Eastern Europe)are once again foisted upon th erest of us, who have little or no interest in these plagiarised fairy tales that have caused so much misery and suffering since their shady beginnings two millenia ago.
This call to prayer is not 'progress' - Islam has largely retarded the development of most Islamic countries- hence their fury at the decadent West where (Gasp!) women can be educated, drive cars, and marry who they like, homosexuals are not stoned to death and the naming of teddy bears, the public hugging of a soap star or the drawing of a cartoon does not cause grown men to burn things in the street or women to wail hysterically.
Brit4life barely merits a response (you have to draw the line somewhere...) but I must take issue with the repeated tendency to label anyone who disagrees with the continued undermining of English culture and social cohesion as ignorant or- in this case as 'hillbillies'.
The acceptance of Islam into British life is not a 'natural and needed development' (needed for WHAT and by WHOM ???) it is a MASSIVE step backwards into the pre-enlightenmnet dark ages of reason- comparable with Christianity at around the time of the Inquistion.
It is far more accurate to say that until recently, a 'natural and needed' diminishing of religion was underway as science and reason chipped away at the very foundations of religions in all areas of the UK.
Religion was about occasional church bells, Christmas carols and social rites of passage- births, weddings, funerals.
Then, NuLabour's wonderful immigration policy, political correctness drive and multicultural mishmash approach meant that we suddenly started importing large numbers of people from places that were rather backward in their thinking due to poor communications, rural based economies and oppression and censorship based on religion or Communism. This has resulted in a situation where the conflicting views (mainly of Islam from the middle east and catholicism from Eastern Europe)are once again foisted upon th erest of us, who have little or no interest in these plagiarised fairy tales that have caused so much misery and suffering since their shady beginnings two millenia ago.
This call to prayer is not 'progress' - Islam has largely retarded the development of most Islamic countries- hence their fury at the decadent West where (Gasp!) women can be educated, drive cars, and marry who they like, homosexuals are not stoned to death and the naming of teddy bears, the public hugging of a soap star or the drawing of a cartoon does not cause grown men to burn things in the street or women to wail hysterically.
Whilst agreeing with you DanOxford that this issue is not acceptable, I really do have to take issue with your rather blinkered 'tea and cucumber sandwiches' view of British culture.
British 'culture' as you view it has been changing for decades if not centuries and is as much a result of our (British) imperial ambitions as it is of our tolerance of immigration. Every person on this island is a descendant of, or is an immigrant. The cultural impact of external contact and immigration has been changing this country for almost its entire written history. Only someone with a blindfold or blinkers made of a St Georges flag would fail to see that.
Far from being the biggest issue on the agenda (muslims and other religions), it is a relatively small one and is being cleverly manipulated by the PC idiots of the left.
Even before this was submitted as a planning apllication, it was on the agenda of East Oxfords Parliament. Ask yourself why that would be.
Personally, I feel that I would like not to have the call to prayer broadcast in Oxford at all, but, I would also like all those other non-British cultural impositions kicked into
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