Hold on. These people are ENCOURAGING 15 and 16 year olds to buy cigarettes. Surely they are the ones breaking the law.

In the same way as inciting an underage kid to perform indecent acts?

Ok if the person LOOKS underage but is legally able to buy the products then fair enough, but this smacks of illegal entrapment.

Yes the shop people should be more rigorous in forcing id checks (and should have badges on with that spelled out on it)but I think there is room for a counterclaim here.

Inciting underage kids to break the law.

Alan, get a grip. What are the police going to do? Dress up in their old school uniforms and then try and prosecute the shop owners for selling to a 30-something dressed up like a schoolkid?

Entrapment is where a person is lured into breaking the law where they otherwise wouldn't have. If you sell to an underage child without question, it's hardly entrapment.

Good point^
If they wernt kids but looked young then i believe those shops should take matters further. Also im a little confused! is it illegal to sell items with out asking for id or is it more down to looks. I think this is another money earning way for our council and police service. Ok if the same shop breaks law 2 3 times then yes issue a fine. Before they issue a fine they should do a 2 out of 3 games caught 2 times selling then £80 fine caught 1 time and over 2 times asked for id and refused sale then no £80 fine

Alan do some research before you have coronary. There is a legal defence specifically for this type of operation to be carried out. section 152(4) Licensing Act 2003.

donovan williams wrote:
Good point^
If they wernt kids but looked young then i believe those shops should take matters further. Also im a little confused! is it illegal to sell items with out asking for id or is it more down to looks. I think this is another money earning way for our council and police service. Ok if the same shop breaks law 2 3 times then yes issue a fine. Before they issue a fine they should do a 2 out of 3 games caught 2 times selling then £80 fine caught 1 time and over 2 times asked for id and refused sale then no £80 fine

Don't be such a tube. It's really, really simple. There are age limits on people buying certain things and if the shop staff aren't sure they should be asking for ID. It's as simple as that. It is an offence for a child to buy or attempt to buy alcohol, also for someone to send a child to buy alcohol. It is also an offence to allow the sale of alcohol to children. Shop workers should know these things and surely they have a moral obligation to all of us to stick to the law.

neil wrote:

donovan williams wrote: Good point^ If they wernt kids but looked young then i believe those shops should take matters further. Also im a little confused! is it illegal to sell items with out asking for id or is it more down to looks. I think this is another money earning way for our council and police service. Ok if the same shop breaks law 2 3 times then yes issue a fine. Before they issue a fine they should do a 2 out of 3 games caught 2 times selling then £80 fine caught 1 time and over 2 times asked for id and refused sale then no £80 fine

Don't be such a tube. It's really, really simple. There are age limits on people buying certain things and if the shop staff aren't sure they should be asking for ID. It's as simple as that. It is an offence for a child to buy or attempt to buy alcohol, also for someone to send a child to buy alcohol. It is also an offence to allow the sale of alcohol to children. Shop workers should know these things and surely they have a moral obligation to all of us to stick to the law.

IT IS AN OFFENCE FOR SOMEBODY TO SEND A CHILD TO BUY ALCOHOL.

So where are the authorities getting off sending kids to buy alcohol?

The current laws make "appears to be 18" an invalid excuse which is why ID proof of purchase has become an issue.

If the company I work for can run test purchases without resorting to using kids themselves then so can the authorities.

Presumably pictures of children behaving sexually will be used to trap paedos?

Why don't the police just walk into a shop and ask if the staff would be willing to sell to underage youths, Alan?......... Actually, can't see that working somehow!

Interesting to see how a test purchase without youths would work.... "I know I'm over 18, but lets pretend I'm not"?

endeavour m. wrote:
Why don't the police just walk into a shop and ask if the staff would be willing to sell to underage youths, Alan?......... Actually, can't see that working somehow! Interesting to see how a test purchase without youths would work.... "I know I'm over 18, but lets pretend I'm not"?

Usually it is easy to spot underage kids. If you have any doubt then you ask for ID.

The more you ask for ID, the clearer it becomes that there are a lot of people who look younger than they are.

I have had 23-25 year olds who looked no older than 17 approach me, only their ID told me otherwise. That is all that needs to be tested.

I have a serious ethical objection to the use underage kids in things like this. Their use is frankly pointless anyway. How do you know that a person with valid ID isn't buying it for a gang of 13 year olds?

Perhaps you should actually do some shop work and see for yourself.

Alan, is it illegal to sell alcohol and cigarettes to under-18s? Yes. Should the people who do it be investigated and prosecvuted? Yes.

You are one of these idiots that whinge about the system being loaded in criminal's favour then whinge about this, the people doing it are breaking the law. If it means actual criminals are caught and punished I couldn't care less how the police go about their business.