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Church wants gay weddings
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| Lynn Moody, left, and Brenda Chandler were among the first same-sex couples to tie the knot in a Civil Partnership ceremony in December 2005 |
The Unitarian congregation at Oxford's Harris-Manchester College is calling for gay couples to be allowed to marry in church.
More than 300 gay couples have 'married' in the county since Civil Partnerships became legal on December 5, 2005.
But, although they are now entitled to many of the same rights as straight couples, they are still not allowed to tie the knot in licensed places of worship.
Retired Oxford solicitor and member of the Chapel Society of Manchester College, Gavin Lloyd, believed this was an affront to their human rights.
Next month, he will forward a motion at the annual meeting of the General Assembly of Unitarian and Free Christian Churches, in Hertfordshire, calling for the Government to end the discrimination.
Mr Lloyd said: "The object of this motion is to be fair to all couples.
"And in the interests of fairness, there should be a legal entitlement for civil partnerships to be ratified on the same terms as marriages - in churches, mosques, synagogues and temples."
The Unitarian movement accepts homosexuality. It has gay and lesbian ministers and provides church blessings for same-sex couples.
Royal Mail workers Brenda Chandler and Lynne Moody, of Bicester, were able to have a blessing at St. Columba's United Reformed Church in 2004, but the Civil Partnership Act prevented them from making their union official "in the eyes of God".
Ms Chandler, 57, said: "We would have loved to have formed our civil partnership in church, before God, as we are both great believers.
"And we have had many friends marry since, who would have liked the same."
Ms Chandler and Ms Moody formed their civil partnership at The Garth in Bicester in December 2005.
Ms Chandler said: "It is time that people accepted gay people as normal human beings who deserve the same human rights as others. The law should be changed."
Gay couples who sign the civil register are obligated to provide reasonable maintenance for their civil partner and any children of the family.
They are also assessed in the same way as mixed sex spouses for child support, and tax purposes.
They are entitled to life assurance, employment and pension benefits and protection from domestic violence.
And they can be the official next of kin for their partners.
From December 5, 2005 to December 31, 2006, 222 same sex couples formed civil partnerships in Oxfordshire - 124 of them male couples and 98 female.
From January 1, 2007 to December 31, 2007, 91 couples did the same - 42 male and 49 female.
4:52pm Wednesday 27th February 2008
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CommentPosted by: Mr Ison, England on 5:05pm Wed 27 Feb 08
The obvious answer,as ever,is willfully overlooked in the race to subvert existing norms,values and morals and the organisation that represent those.
Form your own church and do not expect any leniency with your attempt to muscle in on pre-existing communities.
The obvious answer,as ever,is willfully overlooked in the race to subvert existing norms,values and morals and the organisation that represent those.
Form your own church and do not expect any leniency with your attempt to muscle in on pre-existing communities.
Posted by: Joe, Marston Road on 5:22pm Wed 27 Feb 08
This is not the law.
"We are both great believers"
Then read the Bible and absorb the words within.
Same sex activity is not allowed. Without going too deep; (no pun there then!)
End of question; not allowed!!!!!!!!.
This is not the law.
"We are both great believers"
Then read the Bible and absorb the words within.
Same sex activity is not allowed. Without going too deep; (no pun there then!)
End of question; not allowed!!!!!!!!.
Posted by: Tony Brett, Oxford on 5:55pm Wed 27 Feb 08
The Bible says very bad things about people that wear clothes made of mixed fibres in Leviticus 19:19 - do YOU have any polycotton shirts?
Leviticus 21:20 Prohibits approaching the altar if you have a sight defect. Do you?
Exodus 21:7 Talks positively about a man selling his daughters as slaves. Would you?
Leviticus 25:44 Says that it is OK to buy slaves from other countries. What do you think?
The thing about the stories of homosexuality in the bible is that they are in a different context to today's world. They all refer to unnatural acts and many people believe they are actually referring to exploitation or even rape of men rather than loving relationships and intimacy between two people of the same sex.
Consider that a gay man engaging in sex with a woman might actually be more unnatural in his context that it would be for him to have sex with a man.
And what about Biblical examples of love between same gender people? What about the relationship between David and Jonathan? Wikipedia says: "David and Jonathan were heroic figures of the Kingdom of Israel, whose intimate relationship was recorded favorably in the Old Testament books of Samuel. There is debate amongst religious scholars whether this relationship was platonic, romantic but chaste, or sexual."
Essentially the whole religion and sexuality issue is complex and polarising it does not help anyone reach better understanding.
There are people in all faiths who hold very strong opinions, with very great integrity, on both sides of this argument and the only way understanding will ever be reached is if people try to take the time to listen to each other and understand each other's viewpoints.
The Rt. Rev. James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool, wrote an excellent essay about this in December 2007. See: http://tinyurl.com/2
xrvey
The Bible says very bad things about people that wear clothes made of mixed fibres in Leviticus 19:19 - do YOU have any polycotton shirts?
Leviticus 21:20 Prohibits approaching the altar if you have a sight defect. Do you?
Exodus 21:7 Talks positively about a man selling his daughters as slaves. Would you?
Leviticus 25:44 Says that it is OK to buy slaves from other countries. What do you think?
The thing about the stories of homosexuality in the bible is that they are in a different context to today's world. They all refer to unnatural acts and many people believe they are actually referring to exploitation or even rape of men rather than loving relationships and intimacy between two people of the same sex.
Consider that a gay man engaging in sex with a woman might actually be more unnatural in his context that it would be for him to have sex with a man.
And what about Biblical examples of love between same gender people? What about the relationship between David and Jonathan? Wikipedia says: "David and Jonathan were heroic figures of the Kingdom of Israel, whose intimate relationship was recorded favorably in the Old Testament books of Samuel. There is debate amongst religious scholars whether this relationship was platonic, romantic but chaste, or sexual."
Essentially the whole religion and sexuality issue is complex and polarising it does not help anyone reach better understanding.
There are people in all faiths who hold very strong opinions, with very great integrity, on both sides of this argument and the only way understanding will ever be reached is if people try to take the time to listen to each other and understand each other's viewpoints.
The Rt. Rev. James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool, wrote an excellent essay about this in December 2007. See: http://tinyurl.com/2
xrvey
Posted by: James, Oxford on 8:46pm Wed 27 Feb 08
Tony.. thank God a person who actually knows the bible.
Tony.. thank God a person who actually knows the bible.
Posted by: Andy, Cowley on 8:52pm Wed 27 Feb 08
Oi Joe from Marston Road are you a fool or what? Did you actually do R.E or did you spend most of your time reading The Daily Mail? People like you crack me up. I don't think the gay population have a thing to worry about with people like you still going on about a book that they haven't even read.
Oi Joe from Marston Road are you a fool or what? Did you actually do R.E or did you spend most of your time reading The Daily Mail? People like you crack me up. I don't think the gay population have a thing to worry about with people like you still going on about a book that they haven't even read.
Posted by: alan page on 12:04am Thu 28 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Tony Brett[/bold] wrote:
The Bible says very bad things about people that wear clothes made of mixed fibres in Leviticus 19:19 - do YOU have any polycotton shirts? Leviticus 21:20 Prohibits approaching the altar if you have a sight defect. Do you? Exodus 21:7 Talks positively about a man selling his daughters as slaves. Would you? Leviticus 25:44 Says that it is OK to buy slaves from other countries. What do you think? The thing about the stories of homosexuality in the bible is that they are in a different context to today\'s world. They all refer to unnatural acts and many people believe they are actually referring to exploitation or even rape of men rather than loving relationships and intimacy between two people of the same sex. Consider that a gay man engaging in sex with a woman might actually be more unnatural in his context that it would be for him to have sex with a man. And what about Biblical examples of love between same gender people? What about the relationship between David and Jonathan? Wikipedia says: \"David and Jonathan were heroic figures of the Kingdom of Israel, whose intimate relationship was recorded favorably in the Old Testament books of Samuel. There is debate amongst religious scholars whether this relationship was platonic, romantic but chaste, or sexual.\" Essentially the whole religion and sexuality issue is complex and polarising it does not help anyone reach better understanding. There are people in all faiths who hold very strong opinions, with very great integrity, on both sides of this argument and the only way understanding will ever be reached is if people try to take the time to listen to each other and understand each other\'s viewpoints. The Rt. Rev. James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool, wrote an excellent essay about this in December 2007. See: http://tinyurl.com/2 xrvey[/quote] And the people who cite Sodom and Gomorrah should look at the text a little more closely as the gang rapists are first offered the householders young daughter to rape.
In a retelling of the story (I think in the book of Kings)set in Gibeah, the people accept the offer of the travellers concubine and rape and murder her. Yet the divine does not destroy Gibeah.
So Joe, is that a way of life you sign yourself up to?
Tony Brett wrote:
The Bible says very bad things about people that wear clothes made of mixed fibres in Leviticus 19:19 - do YOU have any polycotton shirts? Leviticus 21:20 Prohibits approaching the altar if you have a sight defect. Do you? Exodus 21:7 Talks positively about a man selling his daughters as slaves. Would you? Leviticus 25:44 Says that it is OK to buy slaves from other countries. What do you think? The thing about the stories of homosexuality in the bible is that they are in a different context to today\'s world. They all refer to unnatural acts and many people believe they are actually referring to exploitation or even rape of men rather than loving relationships and intimacy between two people of the same sex. Consider that a gay man engaging in sex with a woman might actually be more unnatural in his context that it would be for him to have sex with a man. And what about Biblical examples of love between same gender people? What about the relationship between David and Jonathan? Wikipedia says: \"David and Jonathan were heroic figures of the Kingdom of Israel, whose intimate relationship was recorded favorably in the Old Testament books of Samuel. There is debate amongst religious scholars whether this relationship was platonic, romantic but chaste, or sexual.\" Essentially the whole religion and sexuality issue is complex and polarising it does not help anyone reach better understanding. There are people in all faiths who hold very strong opinions, with very great integrity, on both sides of this argument and the only way understanding will ever be reached is if people try to take the time to listen to each other and understand each other\'s viewpoints. The Rt. Rev. James Jones, Bishop of Liverpool, wrote an excellent essay about this in December 2007. See: http://tinyurl.com/2 xrvey
And the people who cite Sodom and Gomorrah should look at the text a little more closely as the gang rapists are first offered the householders young daughter to rape.
In a retelling of the story (I think in the book of Kings)set in Gibeah, the people accept the offer of the travellers concubine and rape and murder her. Yet the divine does not destroy Gibeah.
So Joe, is that a way of life you sign yourself up to?
Posted by: Danni, Middlesbrough on 1:11pm Fri 29 Feb 08
At the end of the day homosexuality is refered to in a different manner in the bible as it is today.
God will love us all, what is wrong in being in a loving relationship regardless of what sex the two individuals are?
And who ever said the comment about how they werent lookers and only blind men would form relationships with them.Beside the fact that this is a immature comment and highly unrelevant.Where is the need to say it?
You should have some respect and be happy fot these people that they have found love.
At the end of the day homosexuality is refered to in a different manner in the bible as it is today.
God will love us all, what is wrong in being in a loving relationship regardless of what sex the two individuals are?
And who ever said the comment about how they werent lookers and only blind men would form relationships with them.Beside the fact that this is a immature comment and highly unrelevant.Where is the need to say it?
You should have some respect and be happy fot these people that they have found love.
Posted by: Mr Ison, England on 8:25pm Fri 29 Feb 08
There is no law forcing the majority to pay lip service to a minorities ideals.
And that is why we live in the UK.
There is no law forcing the majority to pay lip service to a minorities ideals.
And that is why we live in the UK.
Posted by: Louise L Ulrich on 2:16am Sat 1 Mar 08
One fine day, a friend and I were walking along the river bank. We were talking about her partner, and she was explaining her lesbian relationship. "Love is love," she said - it was at once the simplest, yet most profound statement on the subject I have heard.
I have many gay/lesbian friends, and have long accepted them and their sexual preferences. I was certainly glad that I had, when my grand-daughter came out to the whole family at the dinner table one night. It was fully acceptable and accepted. I am so glad that she will not suffer the rejection from her family that so many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people do.
As a Unitarian Minister, it has been my privilege to officiate at the union services of several gay/lesbian couples. What happy events they are!
One fine day, a friend and I were walking along the river bank. We were talking about her partner, and she was explaining her lesbian relationship. "Love is love," she said - it was at once the simplest, yet most profound statement on the subject I have heard.
I have many gay/lesbian friends, and have long accepted them and their sexual preferences. I was certainly glad that I had, when my grand-daughter came out to the whole family at the dinner table one night. It was fully acceptable and accepted. I am so glad that she will not suffer the rejection from her family that so many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people do.
As a Unitarian Minister, it has been my privilege to officiate at the union services of several gay/lesbian couples. What happy events they are!
Posted by: loai, jordan on 2:31am Mon 28 Apr 08
1st : tnx ofr this interesting subject , and also i liked the way of ur discussion
2nd : am not into bible alot because am muslim and am gay , in islam and holly QURAAN says that gays must be killed , not also killed but we might burned too , i was searching in net on what christian says about gays , and there is missunderstanding that i couldnt stand , i heard about gay churches and anti gay churches , i heard about gay marrage and civil union , and never got the real answer for what do i need , except in eastern church i got an essay that sayd gays are unacceptable and some homophobic words , then could anyne of u gimme the right answer for wat do i need ? , what is the opinion of christian church to gays ?? what do they say about homosexual and gay love ???
1st : tnx ofr this interesting subject , and also i liked the way of ur discussion
2nd : am not into bible alot because am muslim and am gay , in islam and holly QURAAN says that gays must be killed , not also killed but we might burned too , i was searching in net on what christian says about gays , and there is missunderstanding that i couldnt stand , i heard about gay churches and anti gay churches , i heard about gay marrage and civil union , and never got the real answer for what do i need , except in eastern church i got an essay that sayd gays are unacceptable and some homophobic words , then could anyne of u gimme the right answer for wat do i need ? , what is the opinion of christian church to gays ?? what do they say about homosexual and gay love ???
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