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Police stopped ‘lawful protest’
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| The Speak protest which led to the court case |
Fourteen animal rights campaigners walked free from court today after a judge condemned the police for unlawfully stopping their protest.
The protesters were all cleared of refusing police orders to break up the demonstration against Oxford University's animal research laboratory outside the Sheldonian Theatre at the Encaenia ceremony last July.
A tape-recording emerged during the trial of unguarded comments by officers, calling the campaigners from the Speak animal rights group "c****", saying they wanted to "prosecute the s*** out of them" and claiming the university was powerful.
The comments, caught on a dictaphone accidentally switched on inside an officer's pocket, led to Speak accusing the force and university of colluding to stifle their right to protest.
During last summer's protest, demonstrators refused to move from outside the Sheldonian Theatre, where the Encaenia ceremony was being held, under police powers known as section 14s, and instead sat down.
At Bicester Magistrates' Court, District Judge Deborah Wright cleared all 14 defendants of offences under section 14 of the Public Order Act.
But she found 70-year-old Pauline Broughton guilty of obstructing a police officer and Fran Cornwell guilty of assaulting a police officer - and gave them both absolute discharges.
Ms Wright said: "I find the (section 14) conditions were imposed unlawfully.
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| The protesters after the court case |
"Whoever was responsible for making the decision that this prosecution should proceed in light of the tape may well have made a serious error of judgment."
She added: "Although the (taped) conversations were made away from the public, all the officers were on duty. Pc (Colin) Travi accepted he had referred to them (the protesters) as c****."
He was also recorded saying "the problem is the protesters do not realise how powerful the university is - it's a sleeping giant".
Pc Andy Bignall was recorded saying: "We knew we were going to take bodies today."
Supt Chris Shead said: "Now we have to prosecute the s*** out of them."
And Ms Wright added Chief Insp Chris Sharp admitted the measures they imposed were "draconian".
Ms Wright said the protesters had been put under a "metaphoric microscope" by police.
Outside court, Speak spokesman Mel Broughton said: "I am extremely angry and disturbed about what has been revealed of the attitude of Thames Valley Police.
"I think anyone in the country who believes you have a right to protest and a right to free speech should be very, very concerned."
Referring to police comments about Oxford University, he added: "These two extremely powerful institutions are prepared to get into bed with each other to frustrate lawful protest."
Thames Valley Police Deputy Chief Constable Alex Marshall said: "I have listened to what the judge has had to say and I take her comments very seriously and will now review this case to see whether there are any disciplinary matters that need to be dealt with.
"There are comments on the tape that I find very regrettable and I find some of the comments unprofessional. I will take careful note of what the judge has said and see if there are any matters which arise from it."
Referring to the comments about Oxford University, he added: "Those are the comments of a constable after an operation. There's no collusion."
A spokesman for Oxford University said: "While we are in regular dialogue with the police, operational matters are entirely within their jurisdiction, and are not a matter for the university."
9:51pm Wednesday 30th May 2007
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CommentPosted by: Maria, London on 12:39am Thu 31 May 07
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to 'uphold the law', instead they're just abusive bully -boys!!!
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to 'uphold the law', instead they're just abusive bully -boys!!!
Posted by: Kit, Oxford on 5:37am Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Maria[/bold] wrote:
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to 'uphold the law', instead they're just abusive bully -boys!!![/quote] Albeit unprofessionally, they are saying what most people in Oxford are thinking - that the harassment and intimidation used by SPEAK et al has gone on long enough. People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won't find that in any of their sob-story propoganda.
If you love animals that's fine - just don't try and impose your morality onto me.
Maria wrote:
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to 'uphold the law', instead they're just abusive bully -boys!!!
Albeit unprofessionally, they are saying what most people in Oxford are thinking - that the harassment and intimidation used by SPEAK et al has gone on long enough. People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won't find that in any of their sob-story propoganda.
If you love animals that's fine - just don't try and impose your morality onto me.
Posted by: James, Oxford on 8:04am Thu 31 May 07
I think the police were right to arrest them. Criminals are getting away with too much these days thanks to human rights act. This protest is getting silly now, I'm sure that if one of these monkeys they test on finds a cure for a disease that has effected them in some shape or form, they will take the drug. And as for the police being "bully boys", SPEAK are THE bully boys. Yes they can have their view, don’t force it down peoples throats as if it’s right!!
I think the police were right to arrest them. Criminals are getting away with too much these days thanks to human rights act. This protest is getting silly now, I'm sure that if one of these monkeys they test on finds a cure for a disease that has effected them in some shape or form, they will take the drug. And as for the police being "bully boys", SPEAK are THE bully boys. Yes they can have their view, don’t force it down peoples throats as if it’s right!!
Posted by: bill gates, Seattle on 8:41am Thu 31 May 07
Every right-minded person knows these animal rights protesters are demented fascists who see animals as more important than humans. Why does the Oxford Mail see fit to publicise their medieval barbarism?
Every right-minded person knows these animal rights protesters are demented fascists who see animals as more important than humans. Why does the Oxford Mail see fit to publicise their medieval barbarism?
Posted by: Nelson, Capetown on 8:45am Thu 31 May 07
SPEAK is twisted. They view animals as superior to humans - a clear error. They need to be dealt with robustly, with violence if necessary. The police were absolutely right to detain them on this occasion. Where people choose to descend to the level of animals, they will be treated like animals.
SPEAK is twisted. They view animals as superior to humans - a clear error. They need to be dealt with robustly, with violence if necessary. The police were absolutely right to detain them on this occasion. Where people choose to descend to the level of animals, they will be treated like animals.
Posted by: Tony Brett, Oxford on 9:09am Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Maria[/bold] wrote:
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to 'uphold the law', instead they're just abusive bully -boys!!![/quote] Yes Maria (who I note is in London, not Oxford). The Police did make some errors of judgement this time. They are humans just like you and me. I'm sure those in power will do all they can to ensure things are handled better next time.
HOWEVER - Speak should really not criticise the speck in the Police eye when they have a whole tree in their own eye. The amount of intimidation and waste of police time they have caused by their frankly aggressive and nasty campaign is the thing that is the cause for shame. The police are stretched enough as it is without having to spend so much resource containing the frankly appalling behaviour of Speak members.
What really bothers me about animal rights fascists is that their actions prevent proper scientific debate about the merits of animal research. I for one am not sure that it is always the right way to do research - I think Northwick Park proved that - but I am COMPLETELY sure that the way to protest about animal research is via our MPs and the ballot box. It is NOT helpful to mount a campaign of propaganda, bullying and intimidation.
Maria wrote:
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to 'uphold the law', instead they're just abusive bully -boys!!!
Yes Maria (who I note is in London, not Oxford). The Police did make some errors of judgement this time. They are humans just like you and me. I'm sure those in power will do all they can to ensure things are handled better next time.
HOWEVER - Speak should really not criticise the speck in the Police eye when they have a whole tree in their own eye. The amount of intimidation and waste of police time they have caused by their frankly aggressive and nasty campaign is the thing that is the cause for shame. The police are stretched enough as it is without having to spend so much resource containing the frankly appalling behaviour of Speak members.
What really bothers me about animal rights fascists is that their actions prevent proper scientific debate about the merits of animal research. I for one am not sure that it is always the right way to do research - I think Northwick Park proved that - but I am COMPLETELY sure that the way to protest about animal research is via our MPs and the ballot box. It is NOT helpful to mount a campaign of propaganda, bullying and intimidation.
Posted by: Laraine Santagato, CA USA on 9:19am Thu 31 May 07
Is that the same Bill Gates of Micro Soft? I think not ?
Is that the same Bill Gates of Micro Soft? I think not ?
Posted by: Phil Gale, Oxford on 9:42am Thu 31 May 07
I'm not sure why having the police refer among themselves to the barbaric SPEAK people as "c****" should be a problem. In fact, it makes no sense that a case should hinge on these unguarded words. What's the real story?
I'm not sure why having the police refer among themselves to the barbaric SPEAK people as "c****" should be a problem. In fact, it makes no sense that a case should hinge on these unguarded words. What's the real story?
Posted by: Charlie, Bedford and Oxford on 9:43am Thu 31 May 07
Speak are not facisits they view human and animal rights as equals. which is why they campaign for non animal based research which is detramental to human and animal health! I think its sickening than can bar people from whole towns or roads just for practising their beliefs
Charlie x
Speak are not facisits they view human and animal rights as equals. which is why they campaign for non animal based research which is detramental to human and animal health! I think its sickening than can bar people from whole towns or roads just for practising their beliefs
Charlie x
Posted by: Charlie, Bedford and Oxford on 9:45am Thu 31 May 07
Speak are not facisits they view human and animal rights as equals. which is why they campaign for non animal based research because animal testing is detramental to human and animal health! I think its sickening than can bar people from whole towns or roads just for practising their beliefs
Charlie x ignore post one hadnt woken up properly :(
Speak are not facisits they view human and animal rights as equals. which is why they campaign for non animal based research because animal testing is detramental to human and animal health! I think its sickening than can bar people from whole towns or roads just for practising their beliefs
Charlie x ignore post one hadnt woken up properly :(
Posted by: Sue, Cambridge on 9:59am Thu 31 May 07
My confidence in our judiciary has been restored. Lawful protest will always be slammed if it's against the big money makers such as the pharmaceutical industry or the arms trade. Some of the comments posted reveal total ignorance of this. They also reveal total ignorance of the scientific arguments against animal research and alack of any desire to find out the truth. I suggest they look at a scientists' website before they post their next naive comment: www.curedisease.net
My confidence in our judiciary has been restored. Lawful protest will always be slammed if it's against the big money makers such as the pharmaceutical industry or the arms trade. Some of the comments posted reveal total ignorance of this. They also reveal total ignorance of the scientific arguments against animal research and alack of any desire to find out the truth. I suggest they look at a scientists' website before they post their next naive comment: www.curedisease.net
Posted by: Emma, Cornwall on 10:39am Thu 31 May 07
After reading some of the comments posted, I am quite shocked at the obvious hate that some people feel for the campaigners of SPEAK. Nelson in Capetown seems to think that using "violence if necessary" against peaceful protestors is an acceptable form of control? I think that really sums things up - I have been present at previous SPEAK demonstrations and feel proud that I stood up for what I believed in; that is that no living being should ever suffer the diabolical horrors that are allowed to take place in vivisection laboratories, whether it results in a cure for an illness or not. Who are we to torture (because, at the end of the day, that is exactly what it is) sentient beings for our own misguided gain? I am neither a c*** or a fascist, I work hard to pay my mortgage and bills, and I will continue to speak out for those that have no voice, and that only rely on us as the supposedly "superior" beings to treat them with respect and to just simply do the right thing. To all those people who are no doubt chomping at the bit to reply with something to the contrary - I challenge you first to become an informed member of this discussion and do some background into vivisection and how it has (not) helped us over the past years. Anyone who has a beating heart, cannot fail to feel such sadness when they see an innocent and defenceless, terrified animal being roughly treated, tortured and then killed, all in the name of "science" (surprisingly the SPEAK website would be a good start). When documentaries are filmed OF COURSE you only see what the powers that be want you to see, else you too would be standing up and being counted against the immense injustices against animals that we are still allowing to take place.
For all the animals who at this moment are incarcerated in vivisection laboratories across the world. xx
After reading some of the comments posted, I am quite shocked at the obvious hate that some people feel for the campaigners of SPEAK. Nelson in Capetown seems to think that using "violence if necessary" against peaceful protestors is an acceptable form of control? I think that really sums things up - I have been present at previous SPEAK demonstrations and feel proud that I stood up for what I believed in; that is that no living being should ever suffer the diabolical horrors that are allowed to take place in vivisection laboratories, whether it results in a cure for an illness or not. Who are we to torture (because, at the end of the day, that is exactly what it is) sentient beings for our own misguided gain? I am neither a c*** or a fascist, I work hard to pay my mortgage and bills, and I will continue to speak out for those that have no voice, and that only rely on us as the supposedly "superior" beings to treat them with respect and to just simply do the right thing. To all those people who are no doubt chomping at the bit to reply with something to the contrary - I challenge you first to become an informed member of this discussion and do some background into vivisection and how it has (not) helped us over the past years. Anyone who has a beating heart, cannot fail to feel such sadness when they see an innocent and defenceless, terrified animal being roughly treated, tortured and then killed, all in the name of "science" (surprisingly the SPEAK website would be a good start). When documentaries are filmed OF COURSE you only see what the powers that be want you to see, else you too would be standing up and being counted against the immense injustices against animals that we are still allowing to take place.
For all the animals who at this moment are incarcerated in vivisection laboratories across the world. xx
Posted by: Dog bottler, Kidlington on 11:16am Thu 31 May 07
Can it hippy. Animal testing is fine. The research would be better if you went in place of them.
Can it hippy. Animal testing is fine. The research would be better if you went in place of them.
Posted by: Oh really? on 11:33am Thu 31 May 07
Emma, if you want to stop being treated like terrorists then stop behaving like terrorists. Stop sending letter bombs. Stop burning buildings down. Stop vandalizing cars. Stop threatening builders. It's really very simple.
Emma, if you want to stop being treated like terrorists then stop behaving like terrorists. Stop sending letter bombs. Stop burning buildings down. Stop vandalizing cars. Stop threatening builders. It's really very simple.
Posted by: Paul, Oxford on 11:34am Thu 31 May 07
The police were out of line in this case, but it is very hypocritical for SPEAK to get on their high horse about it. Anyone who has had to endure their loud, aggressive and offensive style of protest over the past few years will laugh at this. SPEAK's thinly disguised support, and refusal to condemn, vandalism and other forms of harrassment and intimidation are also well known.
What annoys me is that groups like SPEAK often try to justify their actions with reference to very inaccurate and dishonest "scientific" information. For real science good starting places are http://www.rds-onlin
e.org.uk/
and
http://www.pro-test.
org.uk/
The police were out of line in this case, but it is very hypocritical for SPEAK to get on their high horse about it. Anyone who has had to endure their loud, aggressive and offensive style of protest over the past few years will laugh at this. SPEAK's thinly disguised support, and refusal to condemn, vandalism and other forms of harrassment and intimidation are also well known.
What annoys me is that groups like SPEAK often try to justify their actions with reference to very inaccurate and dishonest "scientific" information. For real science good starting places are http://www.rds-onlin
e.org.uk/
and
http://www.pro-test.
org.uk/
Posted by: David, Oxford on 1:27pm Thu 31 May 07
The majority of police officers that i am aware of seem to have an understanding and realistic rapport with the protesters. There are some protesters, however, who are abusive and offensive to these same Officers. What happened may have been unprofessional, but i dont think it can be considered nearly as bad. And if the protest is that peaceful, why do the builders have to be driven in by bus? so that they dont get followed home or have their cars trashed? Doesn't sound like actions from a peaceful protest to me.
The majority of police officers that i am aware of seem to have an understanding and realistic rapport with the protesters. There are some protesters, however, who are abusive and offensive to these same Officers. What happened may have been unprofessional, but i dont think it can be considered nearly as bad. And if the protest is that peaceful, why do the builders have to be driven in by bus? so that they dont get followed home or have their cars trashed? Doesn't sound like actions from a peaceful protest to me.
Posted by: jamie, cumnor on 2:19pm Thu 31 May 07
ive got an easy answer to do away with animal testing use all the terrorists from speak instead tha would kill two birds with one stone stop them harrassing normal people and save tne animals at the same time sorted!!!!!!
ive got an easy answer to do away with animal testing use all the terrorists from speak instead tha would kill two birds with one stone stop them harrassing normal people and save tne animals at the same time sorted!!!!!!
Posted by: Anon, Oxford on 2:21pm Thu 31 May 07
Gosh...Emma, you must be the only person in Cornwall who's against fox hunting!!!!
Personally I like animals as much as the next person, and am totally against cosmetic testing on animals, but evil and debilitating illnesses, wont cure themselves! And frankly blocking off the city centre on a Saturday (some of us work during the week!), walking ridiculously slowly handing out flyers, and barking propaganda at me is no way to get me on board with your opinions! As has been said above, we adults are more than capable of making our own minds up...!
Gosh...Emma, you must be the only person in Cornwall who's against fox hunting!!!!
Personally I like animals as much as the next person, and am totally against cosmetic testing on animals, but evil and debilitating illnesses, wont cure themselves! And frankly blocking off the city centre on a Saturday (some of us work during the week!), walking ridiculously slowly handing out flyers, and barking propaganda at me is no way to get me on board with your opinions! As has been said above, we adults are more than capable of making our own minds up...!
Posted by: Paul, Oxford on 2:31pm Thu 31 May 07
For anybody that's interested in the website that Sue recommends above I've a warning. Don't take any thing it says at face value. The rather ironically named "Europeans for Medical Progress" is an animal rights organization and is regarded with distain by the overwhelming majority of the European scientific community (well those who've actually heard of it).
Its relationship to the science of medical progress is best described as being similar to that of the "Discovery Institute" to the science of evolution.
For anybody that's interested in the website that Sue recommends above I've a warning. Don't take any thing it says at face value. The rather ironically named "Europeans for Medical Progress" is an animal rights organization and is regarded with distain by the overwhelming majority of the European scientific community (well those who've actually heard of it).
Its relationship to the science of medical progress is best described as being similar to that of the "Discovery Institute" to the science of evolution.
Posted by: Andy on 2:44pm Thu 31 May 07
The only reason you Oxford people find SPEAK annoying is because they remind you what a bunch of amoral hypocritical low life you are.
The only reason you Oxford people find SPEAK annoying is because they remind you what a bunch of amoral hypocritical low life you are.
Posted by: Kit, Oxford on 2:51pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Andy[/bold] wrote:
The only reason you Oxford people find SPEAK annoying is because they remind you what a bunch of amoral hypocritical low life you are.[/quote] Ah, yes. Nothing like not intimidating builders and innocent members of the public, committing arson, stalking people trying to do their jobs and putting back medical science by decades to make you an immoral (I assume not amoral - even poor morals count!) low life.
Pot, meet kettle.
Andy wrote:
The only reason you Oxford people find SPEAK annoying is because they remind you what a bunch of amoral hypocritical low life you are.
Ah, yes. Nothing like not intimidating builders and innocent members of the public, committing arson, stalking people trying to do their jobs and putting back medical science by decades to make you an immoral (I assume not amoral - even poor morals count!) low life.
Pot, meet kettle.
Posted by: Anon and on, Oxford on 3:00pm Thu 31 May 07
Interesting opinion...is that mindless, ignorant brush tarring, or have you met everyone in Oxford?! I'm not sure you're qualified to pass judgment on who's hypocritical and who's not...
Jamie has the right idea...if Speak types are so pro animals, why not step in and sacrifice yourself that they may live?! Better yet, send in any Big Brother applicants...they are clearly mad and have little quality of life anyway! Seems perfect...
Interesting opinion...is that mindless, ignorant brush tarring, or have you met everyone in Oxford?! I'm not sure you're qualified to pass judgment on who's hypocritical and who's not...
Jamie has the right idea...if Speak types are so pro animals, why not step in and sacrifice yourself that they may live?! Better yet, send in any Big Brother applicants...they are clearly mad and have little quality of life anyway! Seems perfect...
Posted by: annnnon, Oxford on 3:09pm Thu 31 May 07
Quite obviously this message board is a waste of time as it's clearly hi-jacked by the pro-test movement, or moronic nutters attempting to stir up maximum hated.
Most of you have completely missed the point entirely.
Free speech is everything, no matter who anyone is fighting for. The use of our police force is common on amongst mass organistations whether you are fighting for animal rights, 'science rights'(I was jsut picking any word there), human rights or peace.
There's no point in spouting facism around against an organisation (Speak) that hasn't acutally done anything wrong.
Quite obviously this message board is a waste of time as it's clearly hi-jacked by the pro-test movement, or moronic nutters attempting to stir up maximum hated.
Most of you have completely missed the point entirely.
Free speech is everything, no matter who anyone is fighting for. The use of our police force is common on amongst mass organistations whether you are fighting for animal rights, 'science rights'(I was jsut picking any word there), human rights or peace.
There's no point in spouting facism around against an organisation (Speak) that hasn't acutally done anything wrong.
Posted by: Emma, Cornwall on 3:19pm Thu 31 May 07
To "Anon"(can't you remember your name?), the mindless ignorant brush tarring that you refer to, appears to be coming from your side of the fence. Maybe have a read back through some of the comments that have been left - anyone pro-vivisection seems to be afflicted with a terrible rage, which is directed at people they have never even met before - I am certainly no terrorist, but the comments posted here say the opposite. Apparently anyone who cares about animals is now labelled as a car-bombing terrorist - PLEASE!!!!
If you are all as you say "adults" then stop the nasty comments and have a proper discussion, rather than trying to beat each other on who can be the most insulting. PS.You may be surprised to learn that there are many people in Cornwall who are against foxhunting; but I suppose that comment should be treated with the contempt that it deserves (utter piffle!!).
To "Anon"(can't you remember your name?), the mindless ignorant brush tarring that you refer to, appears to be coming from your side of the fence. Maybe have a read back through some of the comments that have been left - anyone pro-vivisection seems to be afflicted with a terrible rage, which is directed at people they have never even met before - I am certainly no terrorist, but the comments posted here say the opposite. Apparently anyone who cares about animals is now labelled as a car-bombing terrorist - PLEASE!!!!
If you are all as you say "adults" then stop the nasty comments and have a proper discussion, rather than trying to beat each other on who can be the most insulting. PS.You may be surprised to learn that there are many people in Cornwall who are against foxhunting; but I suppose that comment should be treated with the contempt that it deserves (utter piffle!!).
Posted by: Paul, Oxford on 3:36pm Thu 31 May 07
Emma, before you start accusing Pro-Test supporters of being filled with rage you should consider the following. Which side in this debate
a) stands outside the new lab screaming insults at the workers there.
b) tries to follow workers to their homes (why)
c) places fire bombs in Oxford university property.
d) states that all students and staff of Oxford University are "legitimate targets".
Pro-Test and it's supporters have always been very calm and measured in their approach to campaigning, and as a consequence of this (and the small amtter of being right) have won over most people in Oxford. I think this is what annoys the anti-vivs most.
Emma, before you start accusing Pro-Test supporters of being filled with rage you should consider the following. Which side in this debate
a) stands outside the new lab screaming insults at the workers there.
b) tries to follow workers to their homes (why)
c) places fire bombs in Oxford university property.
d) states that all students and staff of Oxford University are "legitimate targets".
Pro-Test and it's supporters have always been very calm and measured in their approach to campaigning, and as a consequence of this (and the small amtter of being right) have won over most people in Oxford. I think this is what annoys the anti-vivs most.
Posted by: James, Cornwall on 3:51pm Thu 31 May 07
I TELL YOU THIS - if an 'animal research center' was being built in my back yard i would do all i could to stop it too.
Shame on you people of Oxford for not caring and 'LNL' to all those who do!!
I TELL YOU THIS - if an 'animal research center' was being built in my back yard i would do all i could to stop it too.
Shame on you people of Oxford for not caring and 'LNL' to all those who do!!
Posted by: Anon...again!, Oxford on 3:57pm Thu 31 May 07
Whether I can remember my name or not is highly irrelevant - that I [italic]choose[/italic] to not post it however, and get condemned for such an act is fairly indicative of the discussions above!
I can't speak for everyone, but the hatred isn't a hatred of animals, but of having people try to wedge their opinions into my brain! Freedom of speech is one thing, enforcing your opinion through violent and illegal acts is another! Obviously not everyone is as 'radical' as others, but yes, some people do cross lines - big lines sometimes, and its much more disturbing than anything a lab does to an animal!
My point remains that I don't march through cities slowing up traffic, getting in peoples way and dragging police from other, much more important tasks to 'officiate' shreiking my support for animal testing - why are Speak, or any other protestors for that matter, so shocked that I might dislike them doing exactly this to oppose it?!
Whether I can remember my name or not is highly irrelevant - that I
choose to not post it however, and get condemned for such an act is fairly indicative of the discussions above!
I can't speak for everyone, but the hatred isn't a hatred of animals, but of having people try to wedge their opinions into my brain! Freedom of speech is one thing, enforcing your opinion through violent and illegal acts is another! Obviously not everyone is as 'radical' as others, but yes, some people do cross lines - big lines sometimes, and its much more disturbing than anything a lab does to an animal!
My point remains that I don't march through cities slowing up traffic, getting in peoples way and dragging police from other, much more important tasks to 'officiate' shreiking my support for animal testing - why are Speak, or any other protestors for that matter, so shocked that I might dislike them doing exactly this to oppose it?!
Posted by: Jade, Oxford on 4:07pm Thu 31 May 07
I think it is probably quite easy to make assumptions about the people here in Oxford, when you are in Cornwall or the USA etc. You are not living right next to the protests, or having to worry about opening post because your work happens to be connected to the University, and SPEAK and other animal rights groups have decided the University and anyone connected are legitimate targets! I like animals as well, but I also love my family and friends who may in the future get cancer or other incurable diseases and if animal testing can find an cure, than I'm sorry but it needs to be done. Animal testing is going on all around Oxford within different departments, this will give it a central location, so then the testing itself will be better monitored. I don't believe anyone has the right to criticize people in Oxford, one way or another alot of people have been put to ransom by this animals rights people, who act like terriosts and Im sure like the citizens the police are fed up with it to!
I think it is probably quite easy to make assumptions about the people here in Oxford, when you are in Cornwall or the USA etc. You are not living right next to the protests, or having to worry about opening post because your work happens to be connected to the University, and SPEAK and other animal rights groups have decided the University and anyone connected are legitimate targets! I like animals as well, but I also love my family and friends who may in the future get cancer or other incurable diseases and if animal testing can find an cure, than I'm sorry but it needs to be done. Animal testing is going on all around Oxford within different departments, this will give it a central location, so then the testing itself will be better monitored. I don't believe anyone has the right to criticize people in Oxford, one way or another alot of people have been put to ransom by this animals rights people, who act like terriosts and Im sure like the citizens the police are fed up with it to!
Posted by: David Mitchell, London on 4:52pm Thu 31 May 07
[bold]Animals 1
Blair's Police State 0
Perhaps the clowns who support animal testing would be more reluctant about it if they had been among
the human victims of the recent animal-
tested TGN1412 drug testing disaster.
I think not...
I hope this latest event shows the promised Oxford lab.
will not appear.
[/bold]
Animals 1
Blair's Police State 0
Perhaps the clowns who support animal testing would be more reluctant about it if they had been among
the human victims of the recent animal-
tested TGN1412 drug testing disaster.
I think not...
I hope this latest event shows the promised Oxford lab.
will not appear.
Posted by: Dawn, USA on 4:59pm Thu 31 May 07
Great decision!
Posted by: jim fontaine, portland on 5:45pm Thu 31 May 07
It is a shame that some people do not realize the abhorrent abuse that is happening to these animals such as cutting them open WITHOUT Pain Medicine. You are taling about cutting dogs and monkeys who are intelligent and feel pain. If the university can't treat the animals humanely than they should leave the animals alone.
It is a shame that some people do not realize the abhorrent abuse that is happening to these animals such as cutting them open WITHOUT Pain Medicine. You are taling about cutting dogs and monkeys who are intelligent and feel pain. If the university can't treat the animals humanely than they should leave the animals alone.
Posted by: Stu, Oxon on 6:17pm Thu 31 May 07
Can any of the anti animal testing people on here honestly say hand on heart that should they be struck down by cancer or any other life threatening disease that they would not take the prescribed drugs?
Can any of the anti animal testing people on here honestly say hand on heart that should they be struck down by cancer or any other life threatening disease that they would not take the prescribed drugs?
Posted by: Tracey, London on 6:18pm Thu 31 May 07
Seems like there's one person here from pro-test posting lots of comments and can't even spell. Just goes to show how intelligent they are! If they want to post a descent scientific website its NOT pro-test! Hahahahahaa
They wouldn't know their arse from their elbow.
Seems like there's one person here from pro-test posting lots of comments and can't even spell. Just goes to show how intelligent they are! If they want to post a descent scientific website its NOT pro-test! Hahahahahaa
They wouldn't know their arse from their elbow.
Posted by: Clare, Cambridge on 6:26pm Thu 31 May 07
There seem to be a few people who are under the missconception that animal experiments save lives/produce cures. If they actually took a leaflet and read it they might learn that they have fallen for the rubbish these people promote. Not ONE cure has ever or will ever be found by experimenting on animals. Get that through your thick heads!!
There seem to be a few people who are under the missconception that animal experiments save lives/produce cures. If they actually took a leaflet and read it they might learn that they have fallen for the rubbish these people promote. Not ONE cure has ever or will ever be found by experimenting on animals. Get that through your thick heads!!
Posted by: Robin, Oxford on 6:32pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Stu[/bold] wrote:
Can any of the anti animal testing people on here honestly say hand on
heart that should they be struck down by cancer or any other life
threatening disease that they would not take the prescribed drugs?[/quote] YES I can honestly say I wouldn't. Chemo and radiation don't work! They'll kill you before the cancer will. I would go to Mexico and be treated by some real doctors who know the cure for cancer and it ISN'T drugs.
Also chemo and radiation were not [bold]discovered[/bold] through animal testing anyway.
Stu wrote:
Can any of the anti animal testing people on here honestly say hand on
heart that should they be struck down by cancer or any other life
threatening disease that they would not take the prescribed drugs?
YES I can honestly say I wouldn't. Chemo and radiation don't work! They'll kill you before the cancer will. I would go to Mexico and be treated by some real doctors who know the cure for cancer and it ISN'T drugs.
Also chemo and radiation were not
discovered through animal testing anyway.
Posted by: S. Pearl, London on 6:37pm Thu 31 May 07
I am disgusted by the way Thames Valley Police have acted. I don't see how anyone can think the police force were justified at taking sides rather than doing the job they are paid for!?
I am disgusted by the way Thames Valley Police have acted. I don't see how anyone can think the police force were justified at taking sides rather than doing the job they are paid for!?
Posted by: Billie, Oxford on 6:38pm Thu 31 May 07
If the vivisectionists are so right about what they do why then will they not have a public debate with qualified scientists who can refute their claims? Why are the anti-vivisectionists censored?
If the vivisectionists are so right about what they do why then will they not have a public debate with qualified scientists who can refute their claims? Why are the anti-vivisectionists censored?
Posted by: Kit, Oxford on 6:39pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote:
There seem to be a few people who are under the missconception that animal experiments save lives/produce cures. If they actually took a leaflet and read it they might learn that they have fallen for the rubbish these people promote. Not ONE cure has ever or will ever be found by experimenting on animals. Get that through your thick heads!![/quote] - Vaccinations, discovered by testing sheep with antrax.
- Insulin, isolated from and tested on dogs.
- Multi-drug leprosy treatment, tested on armadillos.
There's three off the top of my head which have saved and dramatically improved the quality of life for millions of people. Thousands of drugs we use every day are tested on animals to ensure they are safe.
Clare wrote:
There seem to be a few people who are under the missconception that animal experiments save lives/produce cures. If they actually took a leaflet and read it they might learn that they have fallen for the rubbish these people promote. Not ONE cure has ever or will ever be found by experimenting on animals. Get that through your thick heads!!
- Vaccinations, discovered by testing sheep with antrax.
- Insulin, isolated from and tested on dogs.
- Multi-drug leprosy treatment, tested on armadillos.
There's three off the top of my head which have saved and dramatically improved the quality of life for millions of people. Thousands of drugs we use every day are tested on animals to ensure they are safe.
Posted by: Terry, Bicester on 6:48pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]jamie[/bold] wrote:
ive got an easy answer to do away with animal testing use all the
terrorists from speak instead tha would kill two birds with one stone
stop them harrassing normal people and save tne animals at the same
time sorted!!!!!![/quote] And thats just typical of a vivisectionists mentality! Actually all drugs ARE tested on humans. No-one has any idea how a drug is going to affect a human after it has been tested on animals and drug companies have been caught out many times testing their disgusting wares on orphans and third world children.
You people are so naive.
jamie wrote:
ive got an easy answer to do away with animal testing use all the
terrorists from speak instead tha would kill two birds with one stone
stop them harrassing normal people and save tne animals at the same
time sorted!!!!!!
And thats just typical of a vivisectionists mentality! Actually all drugs ARE tested on humans. No-one has any idea how a drug is going to affect a human after it has been tested on animals and drug companies have been caught out many times testing their disgusting wares on orphans and third world children.
You people are so naive.
Posted by: Sophie, Oxfordshire on 6:55pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Oh really?[/bold] wrote:
Emma, if you want to stop being treated like terrorists then stop behaving like terrorists. Stop sending letter bombs. Stop burning buildings down. Stop vandalizing cars. Stop threatening builders. It's really very simple.[/quote] Emma do you realise that no ones been killed by anyone from animal rights... but 4 Animal Rights people have been killed by the animal abusers! Quite telling eh?
Oh really? wrote:
Emma, if you want to stop being treated like terrorists then stop behaving like terrorists. Stop sending letter bombs. Stop burning buildings down. Stop vandalizing cars. Stop threatening builders. It's really very simple.
Emma do you realise that no ones been killed by anyone from animal rights... but 4 Animal Rights people have been killed by the animal abusers! Quite telling eh?
Posted by: Eric, Los Angeles, CA on 7:07pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Kit[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Maria[/bold] wrote:
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to \'uphold the law\', instead they\'re just abusive bully -boys!!![/quote] Albeit unprofessionally, they are saying what most people in Oxford are thinking - that the harassment and intimidation used by SPEAK et al has gone on long enough. People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won\'t find that in any of their sob-story propoganda.
If you love animals that\'s fine - just don\'t try and impose your morality onto me.[/quote] [quote]People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won't find that in any of their sob-story propoganda.[/quote] You need to read up on this subject a bit more. Animal experimentation has [italic]delayed[/italic] development of certain drugs and, in fact, has lead to assumptions that resulted in harm to humans. You can find this all in the public domain, including stories in major British newspapers.
And for those making the absurd claim that these animal rights activists are acting like terrorists for legally protesting a grave injustice, that is patently absurd. I could make many supporting arguments for that claim, but perhaps the most glaringly obvious is that no one has ever been killed by an ARA, especially one with a megaphone. When's the last time you saw a real terrorist attend a public demonstration? Absolutely nuts.
Kit wrote:
Maria wrote:
Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to \'uphold the law\', instead they\'re just abusive bully -boys!!!
Albeit unprofessionally, they are saying what most people in Oxford are thinking - that the harassment and intimidation used by SPEAK et al has gone on long enough. People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won\'t find that in any of their sob-story propoganda.
If you love animals that\'s fine - just don\'t try and impose your morality onto me.
People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won't find that in any of their sob-story propoganda.
You need to read up on this subject a bit more. Animal experimentation has
delayed development of certain drugs and, in fact, has lead to assumptions that resulted in harm to humans. You can find this all in the public domain, including stories in major British newspapers.
And for those making the absurd claim that these animal rights activists are acting like terrorists for legally protesting a grave injustice, that is patently absurd. I could make many supporting arguments for that claim, but perhaps the most glaringly obvious is that no one has ever been killed by an ARA, especially one with a megaphone. When's the last time you saw a real terrorist attend a public demonstration? Absolutely nuts.
Posted by: Clare, Cambridge on 7:10pm Thu 31 May 07
[quote][bold]Kit[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote: There seem to be a few people who are
under the missconception that animal experiments save lives/produce
cures. If they actually took a leaflet and read it they might learn
that they have fallen for the rubbish these people promote. Not ONE
cure has ever or will ever be found by experimenting on animals. Get
that through your thick heads!![/quote] - Vaccinations, discovered by
testing sheep with antrax.
- Insulin, isolated from and tested on dogs.
- Multi-drug leprosy treatment, tested on armadillos.
There\'s three off the top of my head which have saved and dramatically
improved the quality of life for millions of people. Thousands of drugs
we use every day are tested on animals to ensure they are safe.[/quote] Insulin was held up for years because they could not induce it in animals it was only discovered when he tried testing it on himself and friends.
Pasteur experiments on sheep killed them and his vaccine was condemned by German, English and Hungarian commissions. He also stole the idea from Touissant.
Hmm I dunno about the armadillo's but that therapy was tested on mice and other animals and did not work but was released anyway after testing on humans.
Kit wrote:
Clare wrote: There seem to be a few people who are
under the missconception that animal experiments save lives/produce
cures. If they actually took a leaflet and read it they might learn
that they have fallen for the rubbish these people promote. Not ONE
cure has ever or will ever be found by experimenting on animals. Get
that through your thick heads!!
- Vaccinations, discovered by
testing sheep with antrax.
- Insulin, isolated from and tested on dogs.
- Multi-drug leprosy treatment, tested on armadillos.
There\'s three off the top of my head which have saved and dramatically
improved the quality of life for millions of people. Thousands of drugs
we use every day are tested on animals to ensure they are safe.
Insulin was held up for years because they could not induce it in animals it was only discovered when he tried testing it on himself and friends.
Pasteur experiments on sheep killed them and his vaccine was condemned by German, English and Hungarian commissions. He also stole the idea from Touissant.
Hmm I dunno about the armadillo's but that therapy was tested on mice and other animals and did not work but was released anyway after testing on humans.
Posted by: Kit, Oxford on 7:15pm Thu 31 May 07
Eric: -
Indeed I have read up about the subject. If you can provide me with an impartial source stating that animal testing has put back medical science, I'd like to hear it. I'm not a doctor but every scientist I've known has said the exact opposite.
As for terrorism, you don't have to kill people to ruin their lives. I gave an interview supporting animal testing to BBC Radio Five, and was added to a SHAC hit list. Since then, I've had people come into both of my workplaces and shout at me, had malicious complaints made at work, have had people shouting and throwing things outside my house, have had to change both of my phone numbers due to being barraged with insulting phone calls, and have had to install a video-entry system to protect myself and my girlfriend. That isn't reasonable protest or free speech, but despicable intimidation intended to stifle open debate on vivisection.
Eric: -
Indeed I have read up about the subject. If you can provide me with an impartial source stating that animal testing has put back medical science, I'd like to hear it. I'm not a doctor but every scientist I've known has said the exact opposite.
As for terrorism, you don't have to kill people to ruin their lives. I gave an interview supporting animal testing to BBC Radio Five, and was added to a SHAC hit list. Since then, I've had people come into both of my workplaces and shout at me, had malicious complaints made at work, have had people shouting and throwing things outside my house, have had to change both of my phone numbers due to being barraged with insulting phone calls, and have had to install a video-entry system to protect myself and my girlfriend. That isn't reasonable protest or free speech, but despicable intimidation intended to stifle open debate on vivisection.
Posted by: James, Oxford on 7:28pm Thu 31 May 07
Emma from Cornwall
I LOVE YOU-
WILL YOU MARRY ME!!!
Emma from Cornwall
I LOVE YOU-
WILL YOU MARRY ME!!!
Posted by: Kelly, Oxford on 7:50pm Thu 31 May 07
Dear oh dear, judging by the name-calling, the pro-vivs are losing their argument aren't they - not that had one in the first place. Why do they always resort to calling ant-vivs extremists once their argument is lost? Cos its easy for them isn't it? As a previous pro-viv, I used a bit of noddle and looked at both sides of the argument, then after seeing a close family member die of cancer, have a grandparent with dementia and a mum with an incurable side-effect from a prescription drug,it suddenly dawned on me that we're not actually curing anything are we? Its obvious that the pro-lobby are running scared, if they weren't they wouldn't be trying to stifle an open debate in parliamnet would they?? And by that I mean an open, honest debate, not the pro-viv blurb and spin that we're all bored of hearing...yawn......
Dear oh dear, judging by the name-calling, the pro-vivs are losing their argument aren't they - not that had one in the first place. Why do they always resort to calling ant-vivs extremists once their argument is lost? Cos its easy for them isn't it? As a previous pro-viv, I used a bit of noddle and looked at both sides of the argument, then after seeing a close family member die of cancer, have a grandparent with dementia and a mum with an incurable side-effect from a prescription drug,it suddenly dawned on me that we're not actually curing anything are we? Its obvious that the pro-lobby are running scared, if they weren't they wouldn't be trying to stifle an open debate in parliamnet would they?? And by that I mean an open, honest debate, not the pro-viv blurb and spin that we're all bored of hearing...yawn......
Posted by: Chenli on 7:52pm Thu 31 May 07
For what it's worth, the tarring everyone with the same brush is coming from all the discompassionate folks here who say "ARA's are terrorists", "SPEAK send letterbombs", "they harass" etc. You're making every single animal rights protestor/activist out to be a human-hating, mail-bombing, harrasser of oh-so-innocent VIVISECTORS (do you even have a clue what vivisection means? it means to cut into live flesh - live animals - would you enjoy being cut into whilst fully concious?), builders, public, etc.
It's hypocritical really...especially considering no ARA has killed a human, yet there have been many ARA's killed by pro-animal cruelty people i.e. hunters, calf exporters, etc.
You're also ignoring this one particular case where SPEAK WERE peacefully protesting. Yet the police abused their powers. Also, you would not like the same to happen to you if you were protesting against something that you truly felt was wrong, so don't bash SPEAK for following their feelings. If it were children being tested on in Oxford lab, you'd have a torrent of protestors, and tbh, I bet you lot would be out their with them and you lot would also probably resort to drastic measures to save the children, just as some members of the AR movement have done.
Don't sit there complaining about tactics used, but sit there thinking WHY they are used. An animal should be placed in a situation of abuse just as a human child should not. So don't judge us for being compassionate towards those who cannot save themselves.
For what it's worth, the tarring everyone with the same brush is coming from all the discompassionate folks here who say "ARA's are terrorists", "SPEAK send letterbombs", "they harass" etc. You're making every single animal rights protestor/activist out to be a human-hating, mail-bombing, harrasser of oh-so-innocent VIVISECTORS (do you even have a clue what vivisection means? it means to cut into live flesh - live animals - would you enjoy being cut into whilst fully concious?), builders, public, etc.
It's hypocritical really...especially considering no ARA has killed a human, yet there have been many ARA's killed by pro-animal cruelty people i.e. hunters, calf exporters, etc.
You're also ignoring this one particular case where SPEAK WERE peacefully protesting. Yet the police abused their powers. Also, you would not like the same to happen to you if you were protesting against something that you truly felt was wrong, so don't bash SPEAK for following their feelings. If it were children being tested on in Oxford lab, you'd have a torrent of protestors, and tbh, I bet you lot would be out their with them and you lot would also probably resort to drastic measures to save the children, just as some members of the AR movement have done.
Don't sit there complaining about tactics used, but sit there thinking WHY they are used. An animal should be placed in a situation of abuse just as a human child should not. So don't judge us for being compassionate towards those who cannot save themselves.
Posted by: Chenli on 7:56pm Thu 31 May 07
*shouldn't
Posted by: Simon, Oxford on 9:44pm Thu 31 May 07
If you look beyond all the pro/anti viv stuff then some people might just notice the disdain with which the police generally view any kind of protest. This is why I'm happy with the result, even thought I don't agree with SPEAK.
I don't know how many of the people posting have been on protests of any kind, be it anti viv, anti war (or just pro cycling, like critical mass), but my experience is that in the main the Police are complete w*nkers, regardless of the type of protest. They don't like protesters and the sooner we all went home and stopped messing up their streets the better.
I've regularly seen them try to intimidate and/or provoke peaceable members of the public for no apparent good reason - I once witnessed a crowd of 400 cyclists transformed from jovial and happy to angry and on the verge of rioting in under 30seconds because of that sort of policing, but it never gets reported.. Likewise when they smash someone in the face with their baton, no-one seems to wonder if the protester really deserved it. I have no doubt that there are nice coppers (I've met a few on various protests) but in the main they're pretty bad. So one in the eye for the police state gets a big thumbs up from me, even if it means a victory for idiots like SPEAK.
If you look beyond all the pro/anti viv stuff then some people might just notice the disdain with which the police generally view any kind of protest. This is why I'm happy with the result, even thought I don't agree with SPEAK.
I don't know how many of the people posting have been on protests of any kind, be it anti viv, anti war (or just pro cycling, like critical mass), but my experience is that in the main the Police are complete w*nkers, regardless of the type of protest. They don't like protesters and the sooner we all went home and stopped messing up their streets the better.
I've regularly seen them try to intimidate and/or provoke peaceable members of the public for no apparent good reason - I once witnessed a crowd of 400 cyclists transformed from jovial and happy to angry and on the verge of rioting in under 30seconds because of that sort of policing, but it never gets reported.. Likewise when they smash someone in the face with their baton, no-one seems to wonder if the protester really deserved it. I have no doubt that there are nice coppers (I've met a few on various protests) but in the main they're pretty bad. So one in the eye for the police state gets a big thumbs up from me, even if it means a victory for idiots like SPEAK.
Posted by: Pat, Cambridge on 10:38pm Thu 31 May 07
The derogatory and abusive comments from the pro-vivisection lobby is only to be expected since vivisection is based on violence and intimidation of the defenceless. SPEAK are leading the way towards a more caring and humane society for both animals and people in the same way as those who fought past injustices. But as Einstein said 'Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds'. OH!AND, OF COURSE, VESTED INTERESTS.
The derogatory and abusive comments from the pro-vivisection lobby is only to be expected since vivisection is based on violence and intimidation of the defenceless. SPEAK are leading the way towards a more caring and humane society for both animals and people in the same way as those who fought past injustices. But as Einstein said 'Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds'. OH!AND, OF COURSE, VESTED INTERESTS.
Posted by: Steven McLean, Leeds on 9:10am Fri 1 Jun 07
Well said Chenli and everyone on here who has the intelligence to understand that testing on animals is wrong both morally and scientifically... and the determination to do something about it!.
I fully support Speak and the great work they do ...
Well said Chenli and everyone on here who has the intelligence to understand that testing on animals is wrong both morally and scientifically... and the determination to do something about it!.
I fully support Speak and the great work they do ...
Posted by: watcher, england on 9:21am Fri 1 Jun 07
Interesting read, this post. Watch the ARAs gradually get more and more angry when they are criticised and then start to quote the pseudo scientific drivel they call 'evidence'.
The overwhelming message that this post sends is that SPEAK has alienated the entire population of Oxford...a good proportion of whom, probably supported the notion of animal rights/animal welfare, a year or so ago.
The AREs have never understood that violence, blackmail and targeting the innocent will ALWAYS fail (and why a good number of them will end up doing somewhere between 10 and 20 years inside, come the results of Achilles).
SPEAK/SHAC and the rest of them will be ultimately responsible for setting back the rights of animals in this country by decades...but hey, do they care? I suspect not; they just like the violence.
Interesting read, this post. Watch the ARAs gradually get more and more angry when they are criticised and then start to quote the pseudo scientific drivel they call 'evidence'.
The overwhelming message that this post sends is that SPEAK has alienated the entire population of Oxford...a good proportion of whom, probably supported the notion of animal rights/animal welfare, a year or so ago.
The AREs have never understood that violence, blackmail and targeting the innocent will ALWAYS fail (and why a good number of them will end up doing somewhere between 10 and 20 years inside, come the results of Achilles).
SPEAK/SHAC and the rest of them will be ultimately responsible for setting back the rights of animals in this country by decades...but hey, do they care? I suspect not; they just like the violence.
Posted by: Mary Alice Pollard, Cornwall's Voice for Animals UK, Cornwall UK on 10:06am Fri 1 Jun 07
[quote][bold]Pat[/bold] wrote:
The derogatory and abusive comments from the pro-vivisection lobby is only to be expected since vivisection is based on violence and intimidation of the defenceless. SPEAK are leading the way towards a more caring and humane society for both animals and people in the same way as those who fought past injustices. But as Einstein said 'Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds'. OH!AND, OF COURSE, VESTED INTERESTS. [/quote] I couldn't agree more and I sincerely hope the police involved are brought to book for their actions - Police - their job is to stop violence not start it !
I encourage everyone who wants to know more about alternatives to animal testing to visit http://www.drhadwent
rust.org/ I think perhaps the police, lawyers and yes even judges should also - then perhaps they will better understand why we all want to see animals released from this living hell they are subjected to !
Pat wrote:
The derogatory and abusive comments from the pro-vivisection lobby is only to be expected since vivisection is based on violence and intimidation of the defenceless. SPEAK are leading the way towards a more caring and humane society for both animals and people in the same way as those who fought past injustices. But as Einstein said 'Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds'. OH!AND, OF COURSE, VESTED INTERESTS.
I couldn't agree more and I sincerely hope the police involved are brought to book for their actions - Police - their job is to stop violence not start it !
I encourage everyone who wants to know more about alternatives to animal testing to visit http://www.drhadwent
rust.org/ I think perhaps the police, lawyers and yes even judges should also - then perhaps they will better understand why we all want to see animals released from this living hell they are subjected to !
Posted by: George Turner, Rumble on 11:08am Fri 1 Jun 07
Yes - it's a pity that the officers said what they said, it's a bigger pity that they didn't check the tape once they realised it had been left on. It stuipd to the point of farce that the tape was then transcribed and sent out without any check at all! BUT
The injuction is still in place - the lab is built and ,in fact two protesters were found guilty. The others will come again!
Yes - it's a pity that the officers said what they said, it's a bigger pity that they didn't check the tape once they realised it had been left on. It stuipd to the point of farce that the tape was then transcribed and sent out without any check at all! BUT
The injuction is still in place - the lab is built and ,in fact two protesters were found guilty. The others will come again!
Posted by: Andrew Capp, Manchester on 4:49pm Fri 1 Jun 07
There are far too many "rights" and "freedoms" in this country. I think anyone who protests about anything should be locked away forever. Thank God that the government sees things my way!
There are far too many "rights" and "freedoms" in this country. I think anyone who protests about anything should be locked away forever. Thank God that the government sees things my way!
Posted by: Phil Senior, Sussex on 7:53pm Fri 1 Jun 07
Congratulations on your reporting of this trial and its end. It is time the public in this country came to realise that the Boys in Blue and the people who pull their strings are frequently guilty of criminal contempt for those whom they are paid to serve.[bold]bold[/bold]
Congratulations on your reporting of this trial and its end. It is time the public in this country came to realise that the Boys in Blue and the people who pull their strings are frequently guilty of criminal contempt for those whom they are paid to serve.
Posted by: Phil Senior, Sussex on 8:09pm Fri 1 Jun 07
[ Andrew Capp, Manchester on 4:49pm today
There are far too many "rights" and "freedoms" in this country. I think anyone who protests about anything should be locked away forever. Thank God that the government sees things my way!
There are far too many "rights" and "freedoms" in this country. I think anyone who protests about anything should be locked away foreverquote]quote[/quote] In which case I suppose Mr. Andy Capp (Handicapped??)would welcome a government decision to drive a motorway through his back garden with minimum compensation and no leave to appeal? I've never read so much bullshit before - except of course in The Telegraph.
quote In which case I suppose Mr. Andy Capp (Handicapped??)would welcome a government decision to drive a motorway through his back garden with minimum compensation and no leave to appeal? I've never read so much bullshit before - except of course in The Telegraph.
Posted by: Rossith on 10:51pm Fri 1 Jun 07
[quote][bold]James[/bold] wrote:
I think the police were right to arrest them. Criminals are getting away with too much these days thanks to human rights act. This protest is getting silly now, I'm sure that if one of these monkeys they test on finds a cure for a disease that has effected them in some shape or form, they will take the drug. And as for the police being "bully boys", SPEAK are THE bully boys. Yes they can have their view, don’t force it down peoples throats as if it’s right!![/quote] its funny how the majority of testing on animals doesnt help at all though isnt it. People who dont agree with an animal dying every 12 seconds because of vivisection in the u.k. alone have a right to speak out against it, just as you would have the right to speak out against something you feel morally wrong. Before you make assumptions on what you think vivisection is like please visit www.buav.org and actually read up about it.
And how can you call peaceful protesters criminals? just because there are some extreemists in a movement doesnt make the whole movement criminalistic. if that were so then all the police are racist and everybody supported the Iraq war. i think we all know in reality those are not true, you cannot sum up everybody into the same category due to the actions of a few.
James wrote:
I think the police were right to arrest them. Criminals are getting away with too much these days thanks to human rights act. This protest is getting silly now, I'm sure that if one of these monkeys they test on finds a cure for a disease that has effected them in some shape or form, they will take the drug. And as for the police being "bully boys", SPEAK are THE bully boys. Yes they can have their view, don’t force it down peoples throats as if it’s right!!
its funny how the majority of testing on animals doesnt help at all though isnt it. People who dont agree with an animal dying every 12 seconds because of vivisection in the u.k. alone have a right to speak out against it, just as you would have the right to speak out against something you feel morally wrong. Before you make assumptions on what you think vivisection is like please visit www.buav.org and actually read up about it.
And how can you call peaceful protesters criminals? just because there are some extreemists in a movement doesnt make the whole movement criminalistic. if that were so then all the police are racist and everybody supported the Iraq war. i think we all know in reality those are not true, you cannot sum up everybody into the same category due to the actions of a few.
Posted by: tinkle, oxford on 3:00am Sat 2 Jun 07
give these guys at oxford a chance. 3 million animals a year in the uk for over 50 years. we must be close to curing most if not all diseases by now. The only thing not to move on in the last 50 years is science itself.
give these guys at oxford a chance. 3 million animals a year in the uk for over 50 years. we must be close to curing most if not all diseases by now. The only thing not to move on in the last 50 years is science itself.
Posted by: Steph, 659-572 on 7:08pm Sun 3 Jun 07
[quote][bold]Stu[/bold] wrote:
Can any of the anti animal testing people on here honestly say hand on heart that should they be struck down by cancer or any other life threatening disease that they would not take the prescribed drugs?[/quote] Perhaps if animal testing wasn't holding back progress I wouldn't have watched my mother die of cancer. Animal testing kills people. There has been no medical advance made by animal testing that would not have been made sooner without it. Penicillin has saved countless lives, it was not tested on animals and if it had been tested on Guinea pigs, it would have been found to be toxic, and all those lives would not have been saved.
Stu wrote:
Can any of the anti animal testing people on here honestly say hand on heart that should they be struck down by cancer or any other life threatening disease that they would not take the prescribed drugs?
Perhaps if animal testing wasn't holding back progress I wouldn't have watched my mother die of cancer. Animal testing kills people. There has been no medical advance made by animal testing that would not have been made sooner without it. Penicillin has saved countless lives, it was not tested on animals and if it had been tested on Guinea pigs, it would have been found to be toxic, and all those lives would not have been saved.
Posted by: Kathy, UK on 5:04pm Mon 4 Jun 07
So Paul from Oxford (work at the uni Paul?) states that Europeans for Medical Advancement (at least get the title right paul) are an animal rights group , actually Paul they are 'a mainstream science-based research and educational institute dedicated to improving policy and decision-making regarding the use of the animal model in biomedical research.'
I am sure the likes of you would love to label a dedicated, legal and ethical organisation as an animal rights group as it would now appear the anyone who writes about or speaks about anything relatedto protecting animals in any way are terrorists or extermists, over use of a word loses it's impact Paul.
However, the websites you cite are actually pro vivisection sites with thier own vested interests.
From the name calling and labelling you have spouted I would imagine then that you consider all Doctors to be prospective patientkillers,all police to be possible paedophiles?It would appear this is your train of thought as you tar everyone who protests with the same brush!
As for Andrew Capp from Machester (Andy Cap!) who thinks we should all be thrown in jail, I think there are some seats left on the aircraft bound for Burma, you should feel at home there.
So Paul from Oxford (work at the uni Paul?) states that Europeans for Medical Advancement (at least get the title right paul) are an animal rights group , actually Paul they are 'a mainstream science-based research and educational institute dedicated to improving policy and decision-making regarding the use of the animal model in biomedical research.'
I am sure the likes of you would love to label a dedicated, legal and ethical organisation as an animal rights group as it would now appear the anyone who writes about or speaks about anything relatedto protecting animals in any way are terrorists or extermists, over use of a word loses it's impact Paul.
However, the websites you cite are actually pro vivisection sites with thier own vested interests.
From the name calling and labelling you have spouted I would imagine then that you consider all Doctors to be prospective patientkillers,all police to be possible paedophiles?It would appear this is your train of thought as you tar everyone who protests with the same brush!
As for Andrew Capp from Machester (Andy Cap!) who thinks we should all be thrown in jail, I think there are some seats left on the aircraft bound for Burma, you should feel at home there.
Posted by: Martin, London on 6:39pm Mon 4 Jun 07
Andy Capp are you actually Tony Blair just wasting time waiting for Gordan to take over? Good ridance to you!
Andy Capp are you actually Tony Blair just wasting time waiting for Gordan to take over? Good ridance to you!
Posted by: Dr einar thorrson, Sweden on 10:08am Tue 5 Jun 07
[quote][bold]Kit[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Maria[/bold] wrote: Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to \'uphold the law\', instead they\'re just abusive bully -boys!!![/quote] Albeit unprofessionally, they are saying what most people in Oxford are thinking - that the harassment and intimidation used by SPEAK et al has gone on long enough. People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won\'t find that in any of their sob-story propoganda. If you love animals that\'s fine - just don\'t try and impose your morality onto me.[/quote] I guess this person is not aware that 96% of drugs passed as safe in animal testing fail in the human animal!
Kit wrote:
Maria wrote: Thames Valley police should be utterly ashamed of themselves, instead of making pathetic excuses. They are supposed to \'uphold the law\', instead they\'re just abusive bully -boys!!!
Albeit unprofessionally, they are saying what most people in Oxford are thinking - that the harassment and intimidation used by SPEAK et al has gone on long enough. People are dying every day because animal rights nutters make finding new drugs so difficult - but you won\'t find that in any of their sob-story propoganda. If you love animals that\'s fine - just don\'t try and impose your morality onto me.
I guess this person is not aware that 96% of drugs passed as safe in animal testing fail in the human animal!
Posted by: Heather, USA on 10:07pm Tue 5 Jun 07
Not only are animal tests unreliable but they are repeated over and over again for no other reason than to make the vivisectors more money. Humans who believe we have the right to take millions of innocent non-human lives for our "benefit" are arrogant, greedy and/or ignorant.
Why are these innocent animals being treated worse than the most despised criminals? And to the person who asked why AR people don't give their lives to save animals...if I had some horrible and fatal disease, I would gladly let them test on me. The results would be a lot more accurate and I would feel at peace knowing that I did not support cruel and useless tests on innocent beings. Those who condemn animal rights protestors are the very types who would have condemned the abolitionists or any other group who stood up for the oppressed. Luckily, there will always be those compassionate, selfless people willing to stand up for what is [bold]right[/bold] no matter what price they have to pay!
Not only are animal tests unreliable but they are repeated over and over again for no other reason than to make the vivisectors more money. Humans who believe we have the right to take millions of innocent non-human lives for our "benefit" are arrogant, greedy and/or ignorant.
Why are these innocent animals being treated worse than the most despised criminals? And to the person who asked why AR people don't give their lives to save animals...if I had some horrible and fatal disease, I would gladly let them test on me. The results would be a lot more accurate and I would feel at peace knowing that I did not support cruel and useless tests on innocent beings. Those who condemn animal rights protestors are the very types who would have condemned the abolitionists or any other group who stood up for the oppressed. Luckily, there will always be those compassionate, selfless people willing to stand up for what is
right no matter what price they have to pay!
Posted by: Em, Sussex on 2:23pm Thu 7 Jun 07
For those "anti protestors" - I wonder if you have seen the pictures and video footage of vivisection?
I wonder.
For those "anti protestors" - I wonder if you have seen the pictures and video footage of vivisection?
I wonder.
Posted by: james, Bristol on 11:07pm Fri 8 Jun 07
The reaction we see from people who say things like "animal rights fascists" is exactly the kind of mindset that makes injustices like this happen in the first place. One can see how these people, smug in their belief that anything done to animals in the name of even highly flawed science is okay, can use their positions of power in the police and government to break the law and persecute people who disagree with them, rather than engage with them in open and honest debate.
The reaction we see from people who say things like "animal rights fascists" is exactly the kind of mindset that makes injustices like this happen in the first place. One can see how these people, smug in their belief that anything done to animals in the name of even highly flawed science is okay, can use their positions of power in the police and government to break the law and persecute people who disagree with them, rather than engage with them in open and honest debate.
Posted by: Mark, England on 4:38am Sat 9 Jun 07
Well I think theres a lot of bias views on here. Have a look at http://animalrightsd
iscussion.com/phpBB2
/viewtopic.php?t=357
6
Any group of people can do bad things, only lately 2 family dogs were shot and stab by ARs during a raid on a mink farm.
http://www.post-gaze
tte.com/pg/07158/792
341-100.stm
Well I think theres a lot of bias views on here. Have a look at http://animalrightsd
iscussion.com/phpBB2
/viewtopic.php?t=357
6
Any group of people can do bad things, only lately 2 family dogs were shot and stab by ARs during a raid on a mink farm.
http://www.post-gaze
tte.com/pg/07158/792
341-100.stm
Posted by: terry chandler on 1:13am Sun 10 Jun 07
[quote][bold]Simon[/bold] wrote:
If you look beyond all the pro/anti viv stuff then some people might just notice the disdain with which the police generally view any kind of protest. This is why I'm happy with the result, even thought I don't agree with SPEAK. I don't know how many of the people posting have been on protests of any kind, be it anti viv, anti war (or just pro cycling, like critical mass), but my experience is that in the main the Police are complete w*nkers, regardless of the type of protest. They don't like protesters and the sooner we all went home and stopped messing up their streets the better. I've regularly seen them try to intimidate and/or provoke peaceable members of the public for no apparent good reason - I once witnessed a crowd of 400 cyclists transformed from jovial and happy to angry and on the verge of rioting in under 30seconds because of that sort of policing, but it never gets reported.. Likewise when they smash someone in the face with their baton, no-one seems to wonder if the protester really deserved it. I have no doubt that there are nice coppers (I've met a few on various protests) but in the main they're pretty bad. So one in the eye for the police state gets a big thumbs up from me, even if it means a victory for idiots like SPEAK.[/
